Why Are Isothermal Process Assumptions Necessary in Thermodynamics?

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    Isothermal Process
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the assumptions made in thermodynamics regarding isothermal processes, specifically the necessity of a heat reservoir and the requirement for slow compression or expansion to maintain equilibrium at constant temperature. Participants are exploring the implications of these assumptions in the context of thermodynamic analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight that the gas must be in contact with a heat reservoir to ensure its temperature remains constant during heat exchange.
  • Others argue that slow compression or expansion is necessary to maintain a series of equilibrium states, which is crucial for defining an isothermal process.
  • One participant suggests that these assumptions are essential for performing basic analyses of ideal systems, indicating that without them, more complex thermodynamic behaviors would be difficult to analyze.
  • Another participant expresses the expectation that the author aims to describe a reversible isothermal process, implying a specific focus on idealized conditions.
  • There is a mention of the need for higher proficiency in mathematics and physics for in-depth analysis of thermodynamic systems if these assumptions are not made.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of the assumptions for simplifying thermodynamic analysis, but there are varying perspectives on the implications and necessity of these assumptions, indicating that the discussion remains somewhat unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the broader implications of these assumptions and their impact on understanding real thermodynamic systems versus idealized models.

trojanviking
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In my textbook (Physics Principles With Applications - Giancoli 7th Edition) it states that

"We assume the gas is in contact with a heat reservoir (a body whose mass is so large that, ideally, its temperature does not change significantly when heat is exchanged with our system). We also assume that a process of compression or expansion is done very slowly, so that the process can be considered a series of equilibrium states all at the same constant temperature."

I am trying to wrap my head around why these assumptions were made.

Thanks!
 
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trojanviking said:
In my textbook (Physics Principles With Applications - Giancoli 7th Edition) it states that

"We assume the gas is in contact with a heat reservoir (a body whose mass is so large that, ideally, its temperature does not change significantly when heat is exchanged with our system). We also assume that a process of compression or expansion is done very slowly, so that the process can be considered a series of equilibrium states all at the same constant temperature."

I am trying to wrap my head around why these assumptions were made.

Thanks!

Pressure, volume and temperature are dependent on each other

When volume expands, pressure will drop and to keep the temperature constant, you have to get heat from the environment(cooling it).
Heat transfer needs time, so to have minimum temperature fluctuations is better to expand the volume slowly .

By compression, volume gets smaller and pressure rises.
To keep the temperature constant, you have to transfer heat to the environment (heating it)
 
Last edited:
trojanviking said:
In my textbook (Physics Principles With Applications - Giancoli 7th Edition) it states that

"We assume the gas is in contact with a heat reservoir (a body whose mass is so large that, ideally, its temperature does not change significantly when heat is exchanged with our system). We also assume that a process of compression or expansion is done very slowly, so that the process can be considered a series of equilibrium states all at the same constant temperature."

I am trying to wrap my head around why these assumptions were made.
I expect that the author wants to describe a reversible isothermal process.

AM
 
trojanviking said:
In my textbook (Physics Principles With Applications - Giancoli 7th Edition) it states that

"We assume the gas is in contact with a heat reservoir (a body whose mass is so large that, ideally, its temperature does not change significantly when heat is exchanged with our system). We also assume that a process of compression or expansion is done very slowly, so that the process can be considered a series of equilibrium states all at the same constant temperature."

I am trying to wrap my head around why these assumptions were made.

Thanks!

Unless those assumptions are made, there is no way to do basic analysis for ideal systems. And doing in-depth analysis of thermodynamic systems would require higher levels of proficiency in both mathematics and physics than someone taking an introductory thermo class would be expected to have going into it. And it's good to know what an ideal systems behave in terms of analyzing efficiency of real ones.

We all learn to crawl before walking. And from there it still takes a lot of training and dedication to run a marathon.
 

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