- #1
Marenta
Why are there so many posts about women?
I suppose if I ever needed relationship advice about men, I could come and ask here...
I suppose if I ever needed relationship advice about men, I could come and ask here...
The forum is mostly male.Marenta said:Why are there so many posts about women?
Evo said:The forum is mostly male.
Marenta said:I've noticed, scary.
Marenta said:I've noticed, scary.
zoobyshoe said:It's not a male design, if that is what seems scary.
It's all about the ratio. Apparently there is always a higher proportion of men in math/science classes. For every unit oodle of women in math/science it seems there may be as much as an oodle2 of men, though I don't know why.Marenta said:Or, I could have meant that it is scary due to the fact that I know oodles of female science/math lovers; however, it had occurred to me that while they are out there, they tend to not flaunt the fact they're female and they don't travel cyberspace all that often to find conversation. I, myself, only found this forum because I was looking for something in particular related to NPTU and just happened to stumble across it. I decided it was interesting enough and joined.
I suppose though, that the forums (or blogs, or newsletters, or whathaveyou) for SWE are chalk FULL of women.
Time for an informal poll:Marenta said:The debate about the men-to-women ratio in any sort of technical field has been ongoing since they allowed women higher education.
I will note that all of my math teachers in college were women, my chemistry teacher was female, and only my physics instructor was male.
Jimmy Snyder said:Because women are more complicated than men.
Jimmy Snyder said:Because women are more complicated than men.
Are you maintaining men are just as complex, or that women are simpler than men perceive them to be?20Tauri said:That's kind of sexist, don't you think? I don't like the idea that women are somehow more complex or difficult to deal with simply by virtue of our femaleness.
zoobyshoe said:Are you maintaining men are just as complex, or that women are simpler than men perceive them to be?
So you object to the joke because you think it will create a false expectation in men's minds that individual women they encounter will be more complex than they might actually end up being?20Tauri said:I'm maintaining that you can't make generalizations about how simple or complex any person is based simply on biological sex.
Do you find the title and premise of the book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus sexist?20Tauri said:No, I object to the joke because it's making a sweeping and unwarranted generalization about women. We are not some kind of colossal enigma left as a puzzle for men, we're just people. I know some men find women difficult to understand, but I also know some women find men confusing.
There is no question about the fact there are biological differences between men and women. That book goes beyond that and maintains there are intrinsic psychological differences, that men and women simply don't think the same way in many important areas. This, according to the book, leads to confusion and mutual misunderstanding, which the author seeks to clear up.20Tauri said:I don't know what to tell you, as I haven't read the book and don't really have an opinion on it. There may or may not be biological differences between men and women, but I don't think it's reasonable to assume "complexity" is one of them.
Touchy, touchy, touchy!20Tauri said:That's kind of sexist, don't you think? I don't like the idea that women are somehow more complex or difficult to deal with simply by virtue of our femaleness.
I was working up to this, DH.D H said:Touchy, touchy, touchy!
Look at the image again without that touchiness and ask yourself which gender is being defamed. I asked my wife as a sanity check. Her opinion: (1) It's funny. (2) She doesn't give a hoot if men perceive women as overly complex. (3) It doesn't demean women. It demeans men.
If someone lead you to believe this was true they've been indoctrinating you into a very bad version of Political Correctness. That particular observation should not be construed as racist. It's a neutral fact that some peoples are more complex than others. The Chinese are more socially complex than Americans, for example. So are the Japanese, for that matter. Asians are over-represented in academic excellence. Jews are over-represented among professional musicians and in the film industry. There's a difference between saying a race is categorically bad as a race, and merely saying that race is different than your own race. If you take political correctness too far a person won't be able to assert that Chinese people mostly speak Chinese without having said something criminal.20Tauri said:If I picked a race and said that people of that race were more complex than others, I would be a horrible racist.
I tried posting it on my Facebook, without comment, to see what would happen. Three girls "liked" it. No guys responded.D H said:I asked my wife as a sanity check. Her opinion: (1) It's funny. (2) She doesn't give a hoot if men perceive women as overly complex. (3) It doesn't demean women. It demeans men.
You are conflating race and culture here. Moreover, while there can be some truth to stereotypes, people should be careful when appealing to them in public fora, as intent is not always clear, and reinforcing stereotypes can easily play into the hands of genuine bigots.zoobyshoe said:If someone lead you to believe this was true they've been indoctrinating you into a very bad version of Political Correctness. That particular observation should not be construed as racist. It's a neutral fact that some peoples are more complex than others. The Chinese are more socially complex than Americans, for example. So are the Japanese, for that matter. Asians are over-represented in academic excellence. Jews are over-represented among professional musicians and in the film industry. There's a difference between saying a race is categorically bad as a race, and merely saying that race is different than your own race. If you take political correctness too far a person won't be able to assert that Chinese people mostly speak Chinese without having said something criminal.
True.dcpo said:You are conflating race and culture here.
Sounds like the slope is slippery.Moreover, while there can be some truth to stereotypes, people should be careful when appealing to them in public fora, as intent is not always clear, and reinforcing stereotypes can easily play into the hands of genuine bigots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SatireTeasing (sfottò) is an ancient form of simple buffoonery, a form of comedy without satire's subversive edge. Teasing includes light and affectionate parody, good-humoured mockery, simple one-dimensional poking fun, benign spoofs. Teasing typically consists in a impersonation of someone monkeying around with his exterior attributes, tics, physical blemishes, voice and mannerisms, quirks, way of dressing and walking, the phrases he typically repeats. By contrast, teasing never touches on the core issue, never makes a serious criticism judging the target with irony; it never harms the target's conduct, ideology and position of power; it never undermines the perception of his morality and cultural dimension.[23][24] Sfottò directed towards a powerful individual, makes him appear more human and draws sympathy towards him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_entrepreneurdcpo said:I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist, and I'm not making a slippery slope argument. My point is that jokes that play on stereotypical differences between groups play directly into the hands of people with a vested interest in magnifying the apparent differences, when they are made in certain contexts.
Making a joke that can be interpreted as sexist doesn't make someone a sexist, for example, but people who are not sexist should be aware that jokes in a public space where many people will not be familiar with the joker's background can easily be misinterpreted. That's it really.
dcpo said:My point is that jokes that play on stereotypical differences between groups play directly into the hands of people with a vested interest in magnifying the apparent differences, when they are made in certain contexts.
Making a joke that can be interpreted as sexist doesn't make someone a sexist, for example, but people who are not sexist should be aware that jokes in a public space where many people will not be familiar with the joker's background can easily be misinterpreted. That's it really.
dcpo said:I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist, and I'm not making a slippery slope argument. My point is that jokes that play on stereotypical differences between groups play directly into the hands of people with a vested interest in magnifying the apparent differences, when they are made in certain contexts.
Making a joke that can be interpreted as sexist doesn't make someone a sexist, for example, but people who are not sexist should be aware that jokes in a public space where many people will not be familiar with the joker's background can easily be misinterpreted. That's it really.
Gran Torino, really? Clearly I have locked horns with a master debater and must retreat before I'm further embarrassed.zoobyshoe said:I thought my point was pretty clear. You are playing moral entrepreneur and trying to incite a little moral panic here: 'you have to watch what you say or you may be contributing to bigotry'. Your reward if you succeed: you get to dictate people's behavior. PF, though, suffers from an increase in general tension and bigotry is not affected.
Get a clue about teasing, banter, trash talk, etc. so you at least recognize it for what it is when you see it. Try the movie "Grand Torino". The Clint Eastwood character gives remedial lessons.
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