Why are women not interested in problem solving?

[Sam_]

Hi, I'm a 17 year old male who has some questions about the women today. I have a passion for maths, programming, engineering and science. Being a heterosexual male in search of a suitable partner, I'm finding it very hard to find a girl who likes the same things as me. In fact I have seen none in my search. Most of the girls today have the princess attitude towards life and feel that others should do things for them while they do nothing productive. They are very unoriginal and many of the things they say and do is taken from latest movies and TV shows (the type I would never waste my time watching becuase I have much better things to do.) The girls act very hostile towards science and particularly despise mathematics.

When I do find a girl who might be intelligent it is when she is doing some degree in a college or university. Even then it those girls don't have the same passion that I have towards science and tel me they are just doing this to get a degree. They do not take part in any science activities outside their course. And many of them become very arrogant when hey complete a degree and act as if they are superior.

 

[Monique]

We're not all like that

You're only 17 years old, wait a few years when you're attending university and you'll find more people who share your interests.

 

[arildno]

Easy.
Men like to probe things, women like to chat about them.

 

[Redbelly98]

Hello Sam,

Let me just say that (1) those type of women are out there, and (2) it's good to have some other interests outside of math/science/engineering, you might just find somebody some day that you can share these other interests with.

And don't worry, it took me until about age 40 to find my wife!

Regards,

Mark

 

[Moonbear]

Let me ask you this...how many men your age do you know who share such passion for those interests? If you think about it that way, you'll realize it's not that women aren't interested in those things, but rather that a fairly small percentage of ALL people share such interests. And, of course if you're only 17 and trying to chase after college-aged women, you're going to run into troubles of them looking down on you as "still a kid." Wait until you are in college yourself, and those women will be easy to find in your classes with you.

You might also want to expand your horizons a bit. There are women who are passionate about careers or interests/learning other than sciences who will be very compatible with a man passionate about sciences simply because they will understand the hard work, long hours, career-oriented motivation, etc.

At 17, though, most people of both sexes are still very superficial in their interests. They haven't yet discovered their passions in life, aren't independent enough to be motivated to work for what they want, and are still enjoying playing and being kids. Give them time. You just may be ahead of the curve there...and who knows, your own interests might change. I know a guy who got all the way to his senior year in college thinking his passion was math and physics, then it dawned on him that he was just doing it because he was good at it, not because it really interested him. He ended up going to graduate school in linguistics...that ended up being his true passion.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Let me ask you this...how many men your age do you know who share such passion for those interests? If you think about it that way, you'll realize it's not that women aren't interested in those things, but rather that a fairly small percentage of ALL people share such interests.

Honestly there seem to be a disproportionatly small number of women who are interested in math, sciences, and 'problem solving'. Very possibly because of societal generalizations in this regard.


One of my biggest crushes was a girl who asked me to teacher her to play chess though. *drool*

 

[Monique]

I know enough people who don't have a passion or maths, programming, engineering and science, but you can still have great conversations with them on these subject matters. Don't limit yourself by only associating yourself with people who have the same kind of 'obsession' as you, look for people who appreciate a good conversation on any subject matter.

 

[WarPhalange]

Men and women have different brains. It starts in the womb. It's amplified by how they are raised.

 

[Lisa!]

Men are also interested in causing problems not solving them!

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Men are also interested in causing problems not solving them!

And women seem to be rather creative at finding problems. ;-p

 

[rewebster]

I know enough people who don't have a passion or maths, programming, engineering and science, but you can still have great conversations with them on these subject matters. Don't limit yourself by only associating yourself with people who have the same kind of 'obsession' as you, look for people who appreciate a good conversation on any subject matter.

I agree--

Hi, I'm a 17 year old male who has some questions about the women today. I have a passion for maths, programming, engineering and science. Being a heterosexual male in search of a suitable partner, I'm finding it very hard to find a girl who likes the same things as me. In fact I have seen none in my search. Most of the girls today have the princess attitude towards life and feel that others should do things for them while they do nothing productive. They are very unoriginal and many of the things they say and do is taken from latest movies and TV shows (the type I would never waste my time watching becuase I have much better things to do.) The girls act very hostile towards science and particularly despise mathematics.

When I do find a girl who might be intelligent it is when she is doing some degree in a college or university. Even then it those girls don't have the same passion that I have towards science and tel me they are just doing this to get a degree. They do not take part in any science activities outside their course. And many of them become very arrogant when hey complete a degree and act as if they are superior.

It's nice if you do find such a woman, but if you limit yourself to those things, it's about the same as limiting yourself to finding a woman because you have pre-determined that she has to 'look' a certain way, eliminating all others. The more open minded, the more the chance of meeting one that you get along with.

 

[G01]

Hi, I'm a 17 year old male who has some questions about the women today. I have a passion for maths, programming, engineering and science. Being a heterosexual male in search of a suitable partner, I'm finding it very hard to find a girl who likes the same things as me. In fact I have seen none in my search. Most of the girls today have the princess attitude towards life and feel that others should do things for them while they do nothing productive. They are very unoriginal and many of the things they say and do is taken from latest movies and TV shows (the type I would never waste my time watching becuase I have much better things to do.) The girls act very hostile towards science and particularly despise mathematics.

When I do find a girl who might be intelligent it is when she is doing some degree in a college or university. Even then it those girls don't have the same passion that I have towards science and tel me they are just doing this to get a degree. They do not take part in any science activities outside their course. And many of them become very arrogant when hey complete a degree and act as if they are superior.

I have to agree with previous posters who have responded to your post.

1. You seem to just be more mature than most people you are around all day. It is not just that the women you are around are shallow and have no serious interests. It is just that many of the people you see everyday have not yet matured enough to find those passions you already have. Your peers have yet to realize how shallow and small the high school world is. But most people eventually grow up and want more from life than partying and no responsibilities. (I stress most people)

Even when you get to college, there will still be many people who are still in that playing/partying stage of life. (They will be the ones doing keg stands) But don't worry, you'll find many more people with similar interests and passions as you move on to college.

2. I also agree that you shouldn't limit yourself to science folk. There are many people who are passionate about things other than science who you will be able to relate to based off of that. They will help you broaden your horizons and you will help them broaden theirs. Don't count them out just because they are not scientists.

 

[~christina~]

Even then it those girls don't have the same passion that I have towards science and tel me they are just doing this to get a degree.

Blasphemy!

One of my biggest crushes was a girl who asked me to teacher her to play chess though. *drool*

What if the girl already knows how to play chess? She wouldn't be interesting anymore, eh?

 

[ekrim]

How do you know that "many of them become very arrogant when they complete a degree and act as if they are superior?" You're 17 btw.

 

[dst]

Women are very interested in problem creation, however. Ba dum tsch

 

[WarPhalange]

I have several female friends in physics and all of them are cool. The few that have already gotten their degrees don't act superior at all.

 

[Defennder]

Well before this thread turns into "bash-the-male-chauvinist thread", I think it's worth inquiring why is it guys largely outnumber girls in engineering courses. I think the same can be said of computer science, judging from what I've seen. I don't know about maths and physics majors, so does anyone know the gender enrolment ratio in these majors?

 

[Gear300]

Its probably because of cultural demoralization and social roles...and it could also be biological (not sure).

For the sake of argumentation:
-Make a list of 5 famous (or simply historically known) male scientists (including computer scientists), engineers, and mathematicians right off the back of your head (the 5 can be a mixture of these).
-Do the same with women
-If one is able to come up with a list of 5 males and 5 females...then you might start making a point about something.
-Do not use the internets, books, or any information source...just use what you have so far equipped into your mind.

 

[Defennder]

Are females ever discouraged by their family and peers from majoring in engineering and computer science? Personally I'm not aware of any such cases.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I knew a young lady in my programming class who was incredibly fast and adept. She beat the daylights out of us on all the assignments. She was also so beautiful that every head would turn when she walked in the room.

She confided to me one day that she was embarrassed in high school about her high math scores, and would always hide her tests when the teacher gave them back. She was very popular and didn't want her peers (especially guys) to know that she was a math whiz. She didn't want everyone to think she was a "geek", or hate her for messing up the curve.

I wonder if guys ever feel that sort of embarrassment, or have to hide their intelligence to maintain social status.

 

[will.c]

I was never ashamed of being better at math than my peers in high school, but oh my god, did I hate setting the curve.

 

[Defennder]

I wonder if guys ever feel that sort of embarrassment, or have to hide their intelligence to maintain social status.

I think this applies to guys as well. Personally I tend not to disclose my grades, if I had done particularly well, to both girls or guys unless I was sure that they had done equally well or better. I didn't want them to feel discouraged or worse, give them the impression that I was more intelligent somehow. There is an unspoken expectation others have of you if they are aware that you are academically outstanding. But then again, since I'm not from a Western country which I presume you probably are, I can't claim to speak for societal expectations of guys/girls in that setting.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

What if the girl already knows how to play chess? She wouldn't be interesting anymore, eh?

Of course she would be. Unfortunately I have only met a few women that played chess and they got really annoyed when they lost. I have met some women who have rocked my sox off on the pool table though. And unfortunately they were all taken. :-/

 

[September]

Sam, women are intersted in problem solving, at least some of them, but I hope you second half will be interested not only in science, but in other things too otherwise I don't think she'll make a good wife and mother.
It is natural for men to live ONLY in the world of science, but I believe for women it is not right!

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I used to date this chick named Judit Polgar. She asked me if I wanted to play chess. I said sure, like girls can play chess. The relationship went sour after that, I don't know why. The chick I did marry can't play chess either, and she has trouble with logical arguments and can't follow a mathematical proof unless it involves bargains. If you want to sell my wife a handbag for $20, mark it down from $40. But even so, she solves problems. For instance, she recently solved a problem in which a retailer was offering a $40 handbag for $20 and she didn't have $20. Lucky for her, she figured out that I was with her. Husband - $20 = handbag, problem solved.

 

[DaveC426913]

Are females ever discouraged by their family and peers from majoring in engineering and computer science? Personally I'm not aware of any such cases.

More about societal pressure.

 

[jostpuur]

Getting good grades is different from putting lot of time into understanding physics problems, getting obsessed by various mathematical questions you might encounter at some random situations, and working on own programming projects that aren't necessarily related to school at all. I have not met many people who are into problem solving stuff with some proper attitude, but those I have met have always been male. IMO the only reasonable way to think about this, is to just not get too elite.

 

[Sam_]

Don't tell me I'm too young. So what? I've seen enough to make a conclusion and that's that. BTW, I am in college.

As I said a female who has some degree in some scientific subject is NOT necessarily an intelligent female IMO. But someone who passionately likes to solve logical problems and make beautiful pattens from information and does this _outside_ of her profession is who I'm looking for. There are simply no such women that I have ever seen.

And what about the society? Last I checked we live in 2008 when girls are portrayed smart (like Lisa Simpson) in media. Just look at how many quotas are set in various universities to fit more women into their programs. The list goes on...

Yes there is discrimination for women in science, but it is a POSITIVE discrimination.

And I will not respect anyone who considers acting dumb just to fit in with people. I

 

[jostpuur]

Continuing my previous post #28: Sam_, your are trying to be too elite.

 

[Defennder]

More about societal pressure.

What kind of pressure is this? I mean, how exactly is it "bad" for females to enter engineering or computer science?

 

[Sam_]

They will say its societal pressure. Yet, they cannot explain further. This is a term invented by feminists to excuse lack of women in science.

Even if there is a pressure it is to drive women INTO scientific areas.

"Continuing my previous post #28: Sam_, your are trying to be too elite."

Please explain.

 

[Moonbear]

Sam, women are intersted in problem solving, at least some of them, but I hope you second half will be interested not only in science, but in other things too otherwise I don't think she'll make a good wife and mother.
It is natural for men to live ONLY in the world of science, but I believe for women it is not right!

Why is it natural for men? It seems not right for men too! Shouldn't they also be able to be good husbands and fathers? Otherwise, half your equation is missing.

Don't tell me I'm too young. So what? I've seen enough to make a conclusion and that's that. BTW, I am in college.

Yep, we all thought we knew everything at your age. Enjoy it while it lasts.

As I said a female who has some degree in some scientific subject is NOT necessarily an intelligent female IMO. But someone who passionately likes to solve logical problems and make beautiful pattens from information and does this _outside_ of her profession is who I'm looking for. There are simply no such women that I have ever seen.

And as I said, how many other men do you meet like that? You want someone just like yourself, but you're not very typical of the population in general. If you want someone like that, it's going to take a lot longer to find. By the way, problem-solving, and solving logical problems are different (I assume you're referring to things like math problems). Real problem solving is done in real world situations, and quite a lot of people are terrible at it.

Yes there is discrimination for women in science, but it is a POSITIVE discrimination.

Why do you think these programs are in place? To counteract the societal discrimination, which is often too late. But, there are plenty of women in science who enjoy problem solving and learning, so maybe you're just not looking in the right places, or maybe there's some reason they don't wish to talk to you.

And I will not respect anyone who considers acting dumb just to fit in with people.

I don't either. That ruled out a lot of men in college as well. I realize it's women you're interested in meeting, but please try not to make this into a men vs women thread that's portraying women as something negative when the things you're complaining about apply to both sexes.

 

[Moonbear]

They will say its societal pressure. Yet, they cannot explain further. This is a term invented by feminists to excuse lack of women in science.

Oh, now I know why you can't meet the women you're interested in. If you're going to have such negative attitudes about women, the intelligent ones aren't going to want anything to do with you. Only the insecure who are content to fit into those stereotypes you're holding will tolerate talking to a guy who is holding such negative opinions of women's abilities and intelligence.

 

[shamrock5585]

i find it better to have a woman that doesn't share all the exact same interests... in engineering if you all knew the same things..y ou wouldn't be a very good team... you need to be diverse so you can put your heads together... same with a girl.. she will open you up to different possibilities and you will to her as well... and girls always like big muscles... your brain is a big one so flex it for her haha

 

[DaveC426913]

Oh, now I know why you can't meet the women you're interested in. If you're going to have such negative attitudes about women...

Wellll, technically, he seems to have a negative attitude about feminists, which is definitely not the same as having a negative attitude about women. In fact, it might be argued that he thinks women should get more credit than feminists give them (but who am I to put words in his mouth).

 

[Astronuc]

Don't tell me I'm too young. So what? I've seen enough to make a conclusion and that's that. BTW, I am in college.

Too young = lack of experience, particuarly in the wider world. One's OP makes some broad generlization based on a very limited sampling. One's OP belies the lack of experience.

I know many female scientists and engineers (many with PhD's), and they are very interested in problem solving. They do research at universities, NASA, DOE, commercial and private companies (including mine), and many similar institutions throughout the world.

As I said a female who has some degree in some scientific subject is NOT necessarily an intelligent female IMO. But someone who passionately likes to solve logical problems and make beautiful pattens from information and does this _outside_ of her profession is who I'm looking for. There are simply no such women that I have ever seen.

And such woman may not be interested in one, especially if one expresses such a negative attitude.

And what about the society? Last I checked we live in 2008 when girls are portrayed smart (like Lisa Simpson) in media. Just look at how many quotas are set in various universities to fit more women into their programs. The list goes on...

Feel free to provide a comprehensive list so support one's claim.

Yes there is discrimination for women in science, but it is a POSITIVE discrimination.

Please provide examples.

Are females ever discouraged by their family and peers from majoring in engineering and computer science? Personally I'm not aware of any such cases.

In some cases - yes! I know of such women.

I had a professor who thought women and non-whites should not bother striving to be the best, and his attitude was an impediment to several colleagues and classmates.

I had an intelligent woman in one class I taught who seem to hold herself back, even though she was the best student.

Education, encouragement and support have to begin in earliest years for anyone to achieve high levels. Now some are inherently intelligent and don't need a lot of encouragement, but they still need support or access to learning materials. The vast majority of people need encouragement and more support.

 

[loseyourname]

Well before this thread turns into "bash-the-male-chauvinist thread", I think it's worth inquiring why is it guys largely outnumber girls in engineering courses. I think the same can be said of computer science, judging from what I've seen. I don't know about maths and physics majors, so does anyone know the gender enrolment ratio in these majors?

We might also inquire about why engineering, computer science, physics, and math majors are considered to be the only ones interested in problem solving. Social workers don't solve problems?

 

[~christina~]

Of course she would be. Unfortunately I have only met a few women that played chess and they got really annoyed when they lost. I have met some women who have rocked my sox off on the pool table though. And unfortunately they were all taken. :-/

I do play chess, and I don't get annoyed by loosing..too much.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Wellll, technically, he seems to have a negative attitude about feminists, which is definitely not the same as having a negative attitude about women. In fact, it might be argued that he thinks women should get more credit than feminists give them (but who am I to put words in his mouth).

Is it only toward feminists? It seems the OP has a negative perception of women in general, considering these earlier remarks:

Most of the girls today have the princess attitude towards life and feel that others should do things for them while they do nothing productive. They are very unoriginal and many of the things they say and do is taken from latest movies and TV shows (the type I would never waste my time watching becuase I have much better things to do.)

 

[ekrim]

Why do you feel that only women "who passionately likes to solve logical problems and make beautiful pattens from information" are intelligent? IMO you're a little overzealous about a new hobby of yours.

 

[Defennder]

We might also inquire about why engineering, computer science, physics, and math majors are considered to be the only ones interested in problem solving. Social workers don't solve problems?

You're confusing me with the OP. Nowhere have I implied that "problem-solving" fields are restricted to the sciences. My only question in this thread is why there exists such great gender disparity in certain fields of study.

 

[Defennder]

I had a professor who thought women and non-whites should not bother striving to be the best, and his attitude was an impediment to several colleagues and classmates.

I had an intelligent woman in one class I taught who seem to hold herself back, even though she was the best student.

Education, encouragement and support have to begin in earliest years for anyone to achieve high levels. Now some are inherently intelligent and don't need a lot of encouragement, but they still need support or access to learning materials. The vast majority of people need encouragement and more support.

Some time back I read a paper by some social scientist on the phenomenon of minority students in college "acting white". While clearly I don't know much of the history of troubled racial relations in the United States, is there a similar societal pressure on females not to get too smart, perhaps termed "acting male" or something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_white

 

[rootX]

Some time back I read a paper by some social scientist on the phenomenon of minority students in college "acting white". While clearly I don't know much of the history of troubled racial relations in the United States, is there a similar societal pressure on females not to get too smart, perhaps termed "acting male" or something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_white

It's definitely changing. I think statistics about women in engineering, cs,... would improve by time (just few more decades). I put most of the blame on old societies (that still exist in most parts of the world) not on the women. But even in nature, female animals tend to avoid hard work (which would justify women behavior/work in our own ancient societies).

 

[lisab]

Some time back I read a paper by some social scientist on the phenomenon of minority students in college "acting white". While clearly I don't know much of the history of troubled racial relations in the United States, is there a similar societal pressure on females not to get too smart, perhaps termed "acting male" or something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acting_white

I HATE that term, "acting white." I just can't understand that attitude!

I attended two (US) schools in high school: one, mostly white; the other mostly black. And I heard that term a lot more from blacks in the white school, than from blacks in the black school.

Just an observation.

 

[Defennder]

It's definitely changing. I think statistics about women in engineering, cs,... would improve by time (just few more decades). I put most of the blame on old societies (that still exist in most parts of the world) not on the women. But even in nature, female animals tend to avoid hard work (which would justify women behavior/work in our own ancient societies).

I don't see how that is true in nature. For one thing I've heard that female lions do all the hunting while all the male lions do is flaunt their superiority. And it's interesting to know that in the animal world, it's the males who advertise themselves to attract mates, whereas for humans it's the opposite.

 

[Astronuc]

Some time back I read a paper by some social scientist on the phenomenon of minority students in college "acting white". While clearly I don't know much of the history of troubled racial relations in the United States, is there a similar societal pressure on females not to get too smart, perhaps termed "acting male" or something?

I am not aware of 'societal pressure' that discourages women from being smart. It might be more a lack of encouragement, but I'd have to ask some of the women I know about their perceptions and experiences.

I have to wonder if there is some subtle peer pressure during the years of primary education, or if it's a matter of lack of support by parents.

I was listening to a program about the effect of modern/pop culture on young girls, so I wonder if there is subtle influence that discourages women from pursuing science in favor of being more acceptable to the opposite gender.

Little girl's fashions are marketed as 'hot'. And hot is what young girls want to be. Dr. M. Gigi Durham has written a book called The Lolita Effect.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wamc/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1318016&sectionID=663

On the other hand, one of the girls I knew from 4th grade through high school went on to get a PhD in biochemistry. We even went to the same university, where she studied biology and chemistry, and I studied physics before switching to nuclear engineering at another university.

 

[rootX]

I don't see how that is true in nature. For one thing I've heard that female lions do all the hunting while all the male lions do is flaunt their superiority. And it's interesting to know that in the animal world, it's the males who advertise themselves to attract mates, whereas for humans it's the opposite.

Oops sorry, you are right. In most cases female hunt/do all the work that sustain their life (but hunting doesn't earn them power or authority over others) and it's males who predominate. I meant like males mostly focus on tasks that can earn them power - engineering is one of them.

Even though, in my opinion, we are still very related to those animals but we are developing as we are getting more and more resources. So, now we have more and more time to think about relatively less important issues like discrimination. And, I don't think females would ever do any engineering/problem solving job if we had very limited resources [relying on our past to make this statement and economics principle of specialization].

 

[Astronuc]

But even in nature, female animals tend to avoid hard work (which would justify women behavior/work in our own ancient societies).

Um, like Defennder mentioned, the female lions do most of the hunting, and female leopards and cheetahs hunt for themselves and their offspring, and teach their offspring (both male and female) to hunt. I think one needs to take a closer look at nature.

As to why human societies became male-dominated - that is a puzzle to me.

 

[loseyourname]

You're confusing me with the OP. Nowhere have I implied that "problem-solving" fields are restricted to the sciences. My only question in this thread is why there exists such great gender disparity in certain fields of study.

I wasn't confusing you. I just quoted you because you were listing those fields, but I only meant what I said as a furthering of what you were saying, not to imply you personally felt that way.

 

[siddharth]

Regarding Defennder's question, this study might be interesting as it shows how social influences and culture can affect performance (which in this case, is measured as scores in a math test)

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/short/320/5880/1164

Analysis of PISA results suggests that the gender gap in math scores disappears in countries with a more gender-equal culture.

I think that this is behind a paywall. Here's a post which discusses the study.