Lingusitics Why Do Polish Verbs Use Cie and Ci Differently?

[fluidistic]

Hi,
I don't understand why one says "kocham cie" (I love you) and "wybaczam ci" (I forgive you). I mean, why "cie" in one case and "ci" in the other?
Is it because the verbs are from different groups? What are the rules of using ci and cie?

Dziękuję.

 

[Borek]

My theoretical knowledge about Polish grammar is comparable with my knowledge about GR - that is, I know it exists... Don't ask me how I was able to finish primary and secondary school without learning anything on the subject, I am surprised myself.

Whenever verb is followed by noun, noun has to be in the correct case. Which case - depends on the verb. I am not sure if there are any general rules, can be it is just a property of the verb, just like gender is property of the noun. Even if there is some logic behind, it is diluted by many exceptions, which are traces of the language history.

Kocham cię - kochać KOGO? CO? - that is, verb "kocham" is always followed by noun in biernik (accusativus).

Wybaczam ci - wybaczać KOMU? CZEMU? - verb "wybaczać" is always followed by noun in celownik (dativus).

So what you are looking for are not rules for "ci" and "cię", but rules for nouns following verbs.

 

[fluidistic]

Ah ok, thanks a lot. I must admit I had fun reading your post.

I think I understand the main idea.
So there is at least biernik and celownik. Maybe more cases but I don't know.
So there's at least "ci" (for celownik) and "cię" for (biernik), I do not know if I can encounter another variant of "ci".
I guess I should check out on some website since I have no book. Kind of hard to learn a language without any book.

Anyway if I have other questions I think I'll post them in this forum.
Thanks a lot Borek!

Edit: Let me guess: nie zapomniałem ci. Is that correct?

 

[Borek]

Maybe more cases but I don't know.

mianownik - kto? co?
dopełniacz - kogo? czego?
celownik - komu? czemu?
biernik - kogo? co?
narzędnik - z kim? z czym?
miejscownik - o kim? o czym?
wołacz - a little bit different, it doesn't answer simple question.

"Ci", cię" is not a noun, it is pronoun, but pronouns are inflected just like nouns are.

Edit: Let me guess: nie zapomniałem ci. Is that correct?

Can of worms

Both forms - "nie zapomniałem ci" and "nie zapomniałem cię" are correct, but their meanings are different. I guess you mean "nie zapomniałem cię" - "I didn't forget about you". The other form is much more difficult to translate. I wanted to try to give you examples, but either I have a mental block, or my English is too weak for the nuances required.

 

[fluidistic]

mianownik - kto? co?
dopełniacz - kogo? czego?
celownik - komu? czemu?
biernik - kogo? co?
narzędnik - z kim? z czym?
miejscownik - o kim? o czym?
wołacz - a little bit different, it doesn't answer simple question.

"Ci", cię" is not a noun, it is pronoun, but pronouns are inflected just like nouns are.

Oh nice, I'll refer to this post anytime I have a doubt about cases.

Can of worms

Both forms - "nie zapomniałem ci" and "nie zapomniałem cię" are correct, but their meanings are different. I guess you mean "nie zapomniałem cię" - "I didn't forget about you". The other form is much more difficult to translate. I wanted to try to give you examples, but either I have a mental block, or my English is too weak for the nuances required.

Actually I wanted to mean "I don't forget you". Ok it seems I guessed wrong anyway about the cię/ci.

If you're curious where do I get all these words, it's from some songs I've found on youtube. Particularly from Doda and Agnieszka Chylińska.

And if you get some inspiration regarding a sentence including "nie zapomniałem ci" that you can more or less translate, don't hesitate to post here.

 

[Borek]

Let's try.

Your best friend forgot about your birthday party and didn't show up. Few days later she asks for a favor. You think - no way, and you explain "nie zapomniałem ci tego" - I still remember what you did to me. There is a negative connotation, although technically it could also mean "I remember the favor you did".

"Zapomniałem ci powiedzieć" - very similar - means just "I forgot to tell you about" (it can be also "I forgot to give you" - "zapomniałem ci dać").

Doda is not necessarily between my favorite Polish singers :? IMHO she is kind of a Paris Hilton type - more scandalous than talented.

Longer texts are usually easier to translate and explain, there is less possible ambiguity.

 

[fluidistic]

Thank you Borek.
I agree about Doda, after all I can only listen to one song of her: dziękuję.
Currently listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbe19u8aONo&feature=channel.

I can understand that "nie zapomniałem ci tego" have a negative connotation because of the "nie" but I would have never guessed it could mean, in the context you shown "I remember the favor you did". Right it also have a negative connotation.

 

[Borek]

Speaking about learning Polish from songs. Very simple text (doesn't mean primitive):



Few years ago it was quite a hit in Poland.

 

[intelfam]

Have you seen this online language course website?

http://www.livemocha.com/learn/view"

I floundered, but some have praised it.