Why does Isotropy of L imply L(v^2)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of isotropy in the context of the Lagrangian formulation of mechanics, specifically addressing why the Lagrangian is expressed as a function of the square of the velocity magnitude, L(v²). Participants explore the relationship between the isotropy of space and the dependence of the Lagrangian on velocity.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references Landau et al.'s Mechanics, noting that the Lagrangian must be independent of the direction of velocity and thus a function of its magnitude, L = L(v²).
  • Another participant challenges the value of the book, suggesting it may not be worth reading.
  • A different participant emphasizes that the Lagrangian, being a scalar, must depend on the velocity in a way that is invariant across coordinate systems, leading to the conclusion that it should depend on the magnitude of the velocity.
  • Another participant defends the book, arguing that it effectively balances physical intuition with mathematical rigor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the value of the book referenced, with some participants advocating for it while others advise against it. The discussion on the relationship between isotropy and the Lagrangian remains exploratory, with differing perspectives on the clarity of the original text.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the implications of isotropy and the formulation of the Lagrangian, with some suggesting that further clarification is needed on the conversion of vector quantities to scalars.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying classical mechanics, particularly in relation to Lagrangian mechanics and the implications of isotropy in physical theories.

john8197
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I'm reading the first edition of Mechanics by Landau et al, published in 1960. Just before equation 3.1 on page 5 it says exactly this:

"Since space is isotropic, the Lagrangian must also be independent of the direction of v, and is therefore a function only of it's magnitude, i.e. of v(bold)^2 = v(italic)^2:

L = L(v(italic)^2) (3.1)"

This seems very cryptic to me since the magnitude is sqrt(v(bold)^2) =
v(italic).
Could someone fill in the missing details for me please?

Funky
 
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Don't read that book!
 
Clearly the lagrangian has to depend on the velocity somehow. Then you notice that the Lagrangian is a scalar, yet the velocity is a vector. There is only one way of converting a vector into a scalar that will be the same in all coordinate systems (which it has to be by definition): take its magnitude.

If you want to be nitpicky, then you could say v->a|v|+b, where a and b are constants, but generalization doesn't matter (you should check this).
 
salsero said:
Don't read that book!

Why not? I've been using it for a couple of weeks now, and it's one of the nicest books on Mechanics I've ever read. It's brief, but to the point, and appeals the physical intuition without blurring the mathematical side of the story.
 

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