Why does vacuum have properties?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the properties of vacuum, specifically addressing why it is considered to have characteristics such as permeability and permittivity despite being described as "empty." The scope includes conceptual exploration and theoretical implications related to vacuum in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the notion of vacuum as "empty" is outdated, proposing that vacuum contains space and fields.
  • One participant mentions that vacuum fluctuations arise from the uncertainty principle, indicating that vacuum is not devoid of activity.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of virtual particles as undetected excitations of the vacuum, linking them to vacuum energy and cosmological expansion.
  • There is a discussion about the indistinct boundary between virtual and real particles, with references to quantum field theory and the nature of particle existence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views regarding the nature of vacuum and its properties are presented, with some arguing for a more dynamic understanding of vacuum while others maintain traditional views.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects varying interpretations of vacuum properties, with limitations in definitions and assumptions about the nature of space, fields, and particles not fully resolved.

jijopaul
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I'm a fresher in PF. If I'm posting indecently, please forgive..
Vacuum is something empty. It contains nothing. Then why should it have properties like permeability, permittivity etc.?
 
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jijopaul said:
I'm a fresher in PF. If I'm posting indecently, please forgive..
Vacuum is something empty. It contains nothing. Then why should it have properties like permeability, permittivity etc.?

Welcome to the physics forums Jijopaul

"Vacuum contains nothing" is old physics.

New/deeper physics is being discovered.

Vacuum is space that contains no matter, however Vacuum still "contains/is" space.

Vacuum also contains "fields".

In the (QED) Vacuum the electric and magnetic fields have zero average values, but their variances are not zero.

There are fluctuations in the vacuum because of the uncertainty principle.___________________________________________________

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
 
The vacuum is not empty..it is something...Virtual particles are undetected excitations of the vacuum..some say the source of the vacuum energy. For one thing, the 'vacuum' is also spacetime. And curved spacetime is gravity. A dynamic spacetime, that is, a dynamic geometry is cosmological expansion and with the vacuum energy creates real particles...

For more, read about 'vacuum energy' in Wikipedia


Here is a quote I liked from Wikipedia. Keep in mind the quantum fluctuations that are grown with accelerated cosmological expansion can be thought of as a mix of 'real and virtual particles' ...which are also field amplitudes...[analogous to the real and imaginary numbers for real and virtual particles]. The vacuum is full of field excitations of various types.

There is not a definite line differentiating virtual particles from real particles — the equations of physics just describe particles (which includes both equally). The amplitude that a virtual particle exists interferes with the amplitude for its non-existence; whereas for a real particle the cases of existence and non-existence cease to be coherent with each other and do not interfere any more. In the quantum field theory view, "real particles" are viewed as being detectable excitations of underlying quantum fields. ... In this sense, virtual particles are an artifact of perturbation theory, and do not appear in a non-perturbative treatment.
 
Thank you all..
 

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