Why friction plays no role in this non-slipping billiard ball problem?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving the dynamics of billiard balls, specifically focusing on the role of friction during a non-slipping collision. Participants explore the theoretical implications of friction in relation to force and torque equations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the impact of sudden impulses on the forces involved, questioning why friction is considered negligible in the context of the problem. There is an exploration of whether the assumption that the horizontal force during the collision exceeds static friction is valid for billiard balls and tables.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with some participants providing insights into the nature of the forces at play during the collision and referencing external sources to support their points. Multiple interpretations of the role of friction are being examined.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the collision time is very brief, which may influence the relevance of friction in this scenario. There is also mention of the limitations imposed by static friction during such rapid interactions.

andresB
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Homework Statement
Consider the following exercise
Relevant Equations
.
245504


===================

Now, I can get the solution in the book by writing and solving the force and the torque equations together with the non-slipping relation between the angular acceleration and the center of mass acceleration. However, the book solution only arises if there no friction between the ball and the table.

I don't get why friction is not taken into account.
 
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andresB said:
Problem Statement: Consider the following exercise
Relevant Equations: .

View attachment 245504

===================

Now, I can get the solution in the book by writing and solving the force and the torque equations together with the non-slipping relation between the angular acceleration and the center of mass acceleration. However, the book solution only arises if there no friction between the ball and the table.

I don't get why friction is not taken into account.
It's to do with (the theoretical treatment of) sudden impulses.
The impact is taken as consisting of an arbitrarily large force acting for an arbitrarily brief time. Only the product of these, the momentum, is knowable.
The friction between the ball and the table is limited by ##\mu_smg##. Over the arbitrarily short period of the impact, that can only exert an arbitrarily small impulse, so can be ignored.
The situation is different if there is a vertically downward component to the delivered impulse, since there will be a corresponding component to the normal force, and hence to the frictional force.
 
So, the idea is that in the short duration of the hit, the force (horizontally) hitting the ball is just much bigger than the static friction. Is that an accurate assumption in the case of actual billiard balls and tables?
 
andresB said:
So, the idea is that in the short duration of the hit, the force (horizontally) hitting the ball is just much bigger than the static friction. Is that an accurate assumption in the case of actual billiard balls and tables?
Yes, and yes.
According to http://dbkcues.ru/articles-2/collision-of-billiard-balls/?lang=en, the collision time is around 250-300μs. Plug in numbers for the speed and mass and see what the forces must reach.
 
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