Why is pressure considered a scalar quantity in fluids?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of pressure in fluids, specifically why it is considered a scalar quantity despite being derived from the vector quantity of force. Participants explore theoretical explanations, mathematical formulations, and conceptual clarifications related to pressure as a scalar in the context of fluid dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why pressure is classified as a scalar when it is defined as force divided by area, with force being a vector.
  • It is noted that pressure calculations typically assume that the force is applied perpendicularly to the surface, aligning with the normal vector.
  • One participant suggests rewriting the expression for pressure to highlight the distinction between force as a vector and pressure as a scalar, prompting a question about the nature of area.
  • A participant references discussions on the Wikipedia talk page regarding the definition of pressure, suggesting that pressure could be viewed as a scalar part of a tensor.
  • Another participant provides a more complex explanation involving the Cauchy stress-energy tensor, indicating that pressure is a component of this tensor and thus a scalar quantity.
  • The geometrical interpretation of pressure is discussed, where it is described as influencing the volume's magnitude while the stress deviator affects its deformation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and interpretation regarding the classification of pressure as a scalar. While some explanations are accepted as sufficient for basic understanding, others delve into more complex theoretical frameworks, indicating that multiple competing views remain on the topic.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to mathematical formulations and tensor analysis, which may introduce complexities that are not fully resolved. The nature of area in relation to pressure is also left ambiguous.

arpon
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Would you please explain in details , why pressure is a scalar, though, [itex]pressure = \frac {force}{area}[/itex] and force is a vector ?
 
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When calculating the pressure on a surface you assume that the force is applied perpendicularly to the surface itself. That is, you consider the force which has the same direction of the vector normal to the surface.
 
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arpon said:
Would you please explain in details , why pressure is a scalar, though, [itex]pressure = \frac {force}{area}[/itex] and force is a vector ?
Rewrite the expression as ##f=p~a##. In that expression force is a vector and pressure is a scalar, so what kind of quantity is area?
 
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Looking at the "talk" page associated with the Wikipedia article on pressure makes one gun shy of trying to define pressure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pressure (see 3. Pressure definition).

How about the idea that "pressure is a scalar part of a tensor"?
 
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The simple explanation is in post #2, the complicated one (in terms of the Cauchy stress-energy tensor) is hinted to in post#4. As soon as one goes to study continuum (classical) dynamics, then the true nature of 'p' results. For high-school physics, post#2 will suffice.
 
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The formal explanation of the answers above is as follows. Take an arbitrary volume ##V## with boundary ##\partial V## out of a fluid. Then there's a force corresponding to the interaction of the fluid outside of the volume on the surface of the volume. The total force (neglecting bulk forces like gravity) on the fluid volume then is given by
$$F_j=\int_{\partial V} \mathrm{d}^2 f_k \sigma_{kj},$$
where ##\sigma_{kj}## is the stress tensor of the fluid and ##\mathrm{d}^2 \vec{f}## the surface-normal vectors along the boundary of the volume pointing by convention outward of the volume.

Pressure is one part of the stress tensor of a fluid
$$\sigma_{jk}=s_{jk}-P \delta_{jk}.$$
By definition ##s_{jk}##, the "stress deviator", is traceless and thus
$$\sigma_{jj}=-3 P$$
Since ##\sigma_{jk}## is a 2nd rank tensor, the pressure is a scalar.

The geometrical meaning is that the pressure tries to change the magnitude of the volume, while the traceless stress deviator tends to deform it.

The Wikipedia article on this topic is very nice with very good figures, making the thing pretty intuitive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy_stress_tensor
 
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