Why is the concept of cycles overlooked in causation models?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the role of cycles in causation models, particularly in relation to their treatment in philosophical literature and their implications in various dynamics. Participants explore the significance of cycles in causal reasoning and question why they are often overlooked in formal models of causation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that cycles are mentioned only briefly in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy's article on causal models and questions their lack of emphasis in discussions of causation.
  • Another participant requests clarification on what specific elements constitute cycles in the context of causation.
  • Some participants argue that causal models are typically not suited for reversible processes, suggesting that they are more applicable to irreversible processes where complete system modeling is not feasible.
  • There is uncertainty expressed about whether all causal models disallow cycles, with a participant noting that some formalisms may allow for cycles.
  • One participant highlights the prevalence of cyclical dynamics in nature, providing examples such as energy and material cycles, and expresses disappointment that a lengthy article does not delve deeper into this topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the treatment of cycles in causal models. There are competing views regarding the appropriateness of the forum for this discussion and the applicability of causal models to reversible processes.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and assumptions surrounding cycles in causation, as well as the limitations of causal models in capturing complex dynamics.

Twodogs
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The online Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has a lengthy article on Causal Models. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/causal-models/
In this article the word 'cycle' appears twice in non-substantive fashion. Given the prevalence of cycles in many kinds of dynamics, I am curious why it does not receive more attention as a key element in causation. That said, I am not certain I have posted this question in the appropriate forum. Thanks.
 
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Please give us more details of cycle you said, e.g. what elements form circle ?
 
Twodogs said:
The online Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has a lengthy article on Causal Models. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/causal-models/
In this article the word 'cycle' appears twice in non-substantive fashion. Given the prevalence of cycles in many kinds of dynamics, I am curious why it does not receive more attention as a key element in causation. That said, I am not certain I have posted this question in the appropriate forum. Thanks.
This is not the correct forum for this discussion. It belongs in the probability and statistics forum. Also, causal models are not designed to model reversible processes like we typically find in classical mechanics. Instead, you typically want an irreversible process before causality models have much use and in practice they are typically applied in domains where it is impossible to model the complete system.

Also, I am not sure that all causal models disallow cycles. Even in the article I think they say that some formalisms do.
 
Yes. Anywhere you look in 'nature' you find cycles of energy & materials driven by some sort of energy gradient. Put a rock in a laminar fluid flow and numerous eddies appear. Planets, pistons, pulse - cyclical dynamics is a numerous class. One expects that a thirty-six page article (that does mention 'acyclic' causality) would offer some discussion of this. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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jbergman said:
This is not the correct forum for this discussion. It belongs in the probability and statistics forum. Also, causal models are not designed to model reversible processes like we typically find in classical mechanics. Instead, you typically want an irreversible process before causality models have much use and in practice they are typically applied in domains where it is impossible to model the complete system.

Also, I am not sure that all causal models disallow cycles. Even in the article I think they say that some formalisms do.
Thanks, I posted a reply before seeing your post. I would still like to find out more and will look into reversible processes.
 

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