News Why We Fight Movie: Must-Watch Eye-Opening Film

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The discussion centers around the film "Why We Fight," which critiques the American military-industrial complex, echoing concerns raised by President Eisenhower in his farewell address. Participants express strong opinions on the film's portrayal of militarization and its historical context, referencing figures like Smedley Butler to argue that U.S. military interventions have roots predating World War II. The conversation touches on Eisenhower's warnings about the dangers of a powerful military establishment and its implications for democracy and society. Some participants debate Eisenhower's insights, suggesting that his focus on spirituality may not align with contemporary views on morality and religion. The discussion also critiques the film's trailer, questioning its representation of military statistics and the potential for misleading narratives. Overall, the thread reflects a deep concern about the U.S. evolving into a militaristic empire, drawing parallels to historical empires like Rome.
  • #51
I saw this movie a while ago, and it agrees with my beliefs, that the militairy is running a racket. I never much trusted Rumsfield and his goons in the first place.

This all, of course, conjecture, since I'm not there, but seriously, watch the video before you judge it.

It's definitely not like Micheal Moore.
 
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  • #52
kyleb said:
I don't see any reason to even consider the possibility, and that leaves me wondering why you ask.

Well, it just shows how weird Eisenhower's laws are, considering that a slave-owner wouldn't even pass them.
 
  • #53
Finally found the clip I wanted to show. Want more on our becoming an empire,

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4078254699358348828&q=charlie+rose+british+harvard+book

watch the second half with Caroline Elkins, 2006 Pulitzer prize winner.

Important information.
 
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  • #54
russ_watters said:
When was the last time our empire grew, under the definition of the term that fits what the Romans did?

I hate to necropost, but I'd like to offer a sort of compromise to these conflicting ideas.

I think, at least in the social sector, the global masses have reached a less violent sort of society, we are becoming more civilized in that aspect. News also travels faster nowdays, and large amounts of countries are united in treaties. You can't be like Rome today, you'd get your ass handed to you by the EU or UN and their allying with anyone you're wrecklessly conquering.

Instead, we set up economic institutions and figure out ways to slowly drain their economy into ours, but also making their economy appear to be stronger (i can't say whether it really does or not, because it's so complicated of an interaction. I know in some cases it does, and in some it doesn't.) .

We do go to war, and conquest, but we have to come up with very convincing reasons, and obviously we're willing to push the bounds on cases where the UN or EU (or whoever would try to handle the US if it went Rogue) can't really take harsh action against us, but isn't obligated to support us either.

When people say 'we are the new Rome' they're referring to an evolution of the idea of conquest that is less (note, less, not non) violent, and more economically based.

Further more, the idea of empire is more evolved too. We're a representative democracy, we don't chose to go to war as the people, hell we don't always get to chose our president. The whole idea of war is run in our immediate physical interests but absent of our moral interest or long-term well-being. I have no say in cabinet members (edit:) which have a lot of say in our foreign affairs... which eventually comes back to the US individuals and domestic businesses in some form or another.

Economically, it's been shown (starting with the Hobbes/Locke era) that being an empire sucks, because that limits your profits. If the markets to free, you won't be able to make money off of it as the government, but if you find a spot in between, you can effectively make more profits and still manage the consequences of a free market.

Superpower is the new form of Empire, that's all. Same underlying concept, different means, and we're the leading Superpower.

disclaimer: damn it jim! I'm a scientist, not a political economist (but I'm taking a political economy class, so forgive me if I'm drawing premature conclusions about the current state of affairs)
 
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  • #55
Mickey said:
Well, it just shows how weird Eisenhower's laws are, considering that a slave-owner wouldn't even pass them.

I don't support slavery, but I agree that the militairy industrial presence in the U.S. is more cavalier than it ought to be.

So if a slave owner disagrees with my opinion on the U.S., it makes my ideas wierd, because he's a slave owner?

THAT's wierd... What if he would have been a garbage man or a priest disagreeing with me? Then would I have been more in line?
 
  • #56
Pythagorean said:
Instead, we set up economic institutions and figure out ways to slowly drain their economy into ours, but also making their economy appear to be stronger (i can't say whether it really does or not, because it's so complicated of an interaction. I know in some cases it does, and in some it doesn't.) .
There's also the question whether this is intentional or simply the natural course of things. While I agree there is such a thing as economic colonialism, it could be a natural phenomenon.
 
  • #57
Yonoz said:
There's also the question whether this is intentional or simply the natural course of things. While I agree there is such a thing as economic colonialism, it could be a natural phenomenon.

I didn't mean to imply it was a conspiracy or even intentional evil, it's more inconsiderate business sense. The bototm line and all that...

The people selling weapons are just as interested in pimping their product as Multinational Corps like McDonalds. They're not working together to make everone fat and violent, they're just aren't concerned about the consequences of their marketing techniques.
 
  • #58
Pythagorean said:
I didn't mean to imply it was a conspiracy or even intentional evil, it's more inconsiderate business sense. The bototm line and all that...

The people selling weapons are just as interested in pimping their product as Multinational Corps like McDonalds. They're not working together to make everone fat and violent, they're just aren't concerned about the consequences of their marketing techniques.
You're right, but you really can't do much about it. Someone will always be willing to make a dishonest buck. Have you seen "Lord of War"?
 
  • #59
Yonoz said:
You're right, but you really can't do much about it. Someone will always be willing to make a dishonest buck. Have you seen "Lord of War"?

Was that the one with Nicolas Cage? Good fact movie, and I love Cage, but I don't remember much else from it as it didn't hold my attention very well, after the intro where the statistics are mentioned.

There's probably not much that can be done about it, but I'm still very vocal about not supporting the war racket.
 
  • #60
Pythagorean said:
There's probably not much that can be done about it, but I'm still very vocal about not supporting the war racket.
Are there any initiatives to curb the US arms industry by regulation? Is this even on the public agenda in the States?
 
  • #61
Maybe this was in the movie, but did you know that the second largest military force in Iraq is private military contractors?

Their combined numbers are a few thousand larger than the UKs. Many are operating in combat support roles, but a suprisingly large amount carry assault rifles, NVGs, sniper rifles, etc and have access to humvees, (maybe APCs), and limited air support. Crazy, huh...
 
  • #62
Yonoz said:
Are there any initiatives to curb the US arms industry by regulation? Is this even on the public agenda in the States?
You mean those terrorist coddling liberals?

Now that the US has suspended habeas corpus, they will be dealt with. :wink:
 
  • #63
Yonoz said:
Are there any initiatives to curb the US arms industry by regulation? Is this even on the public agenda in the States?

War is its own monster, and it's largely directed by the executive branch in the U.S. and so they probably control (or at least try) the policies on the arms industry, in the name of defense. I think they need approval from congress in most cases, but as I understand it, the president also has some sort of influence over who sits in congress.

I'm just taking Pol Econ as a general requirement, so I'd appreciate any bonified critcism on my understanding of the politics of war.

Besides what I've learned from my PE class, I think some people claim congress was 'tricked' into allowing the war in iraq to happen. There's also some people that say that the president has 'emergency powers' which gives him a special position during times of war.

I imagine it would be very difficult to 'curb the US arms industry', but I'm quite an outsider on the issue.
 
  • #64
Pythagorean said:
War is its own monster, and it's largely directed by the executive branch in the U.S. and so they probably control (or at least try) the policies on the arms industry, in the name of defense.
I would like to emphasise that my question was about the US public agenda. Obviously individuals in whatever branch will have their own motives etc; I really meant to ask if there is any constructive criticism calling for some kind of regulatory control of the military industries? Or is regulation perceived as less desirable than than military-industrial-government complexes?
Why should "checks and balances" be limited to the government sector, when there is such strong fear of excessive power being gained by entities in the private sector?
 
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