Did God Intend to Create Insanity?

[InfPerf000]

If we and this world were indeed created by an almighty "god" then "he" could not have created insanity. According to christians, we were all created with free will and that is the reason that there is violence and suffering in the world. However, insane people do not necessarily have free will. The reasoning behind this "free will" is flawed as some people do not have it all of the time. Why would "god" "create" insanity?

 

[bola]

Heh.. I don't know if I should touch this one.. I don't believe in god or religion.

But, your definition of 'insanity' is a little unclear.
Do you mean schizophrenia? Psychopathy? bipolar disorder?
Most of these illnesses come from chemical inbalances in the brain, and very few people are actually 'insane'. A psychotic episode is a bieffect of some of those disorders, and most people who think of insanity think about a psychotic episode.

God didn't create insanity, its a defect of the brain, the human brain hasn't evolved enough to avoid these imbalances yet.

heh i know this probably wasnt the answer you were after, but it's true.
god couldn't have created the universe or us, if so, are there any god particles i don't know about?

 

[michelle s]

What if God created insanity for the benifit of other human beings?
What if these "insane" people are just there for others to appreciate their "free will" and their ability of choice?
personally i do not believe in choice. and i believe that insane people could possibly be the key to understanding... about "why".

"The reasoning behind this "free will" is flawed as some people do not have it all of the time."

Maybe God made mistakes in his design... ?

 

[InfPerf000]

But if god created us then he would have meant for that person to have that defect in their brain, causing that person to have no or reduced free will, therefore disproving the fact that everyone is born with free will and has the choice to be violent or cause suffering.

God supposedly created ALL human beings with free will. Christains do not believe that some people are less than others, as an example to them.
The idea of a "god" is that they would be all powerful and all knowing, so they could not make mistakes.

 

[bola]

But the problem is god didnt create the defect, society, nursing and upbringing did.
The person who gets it develops it over time, because of stress or other outside influences.

Personally i don't see god fitting into the picture anywhere, as Earth is just the sum of its parts, we're all independent parts moving and doing things without subjective free will, and thus people get problems.

god just doesn't fit in anywhere.

 

[Erus]

Clouds are not perfect spheres, nor are mountains perfect cones. If not for insane people, it would be more uniform don't you think (Society in general)? Then again, it couldn't possibly be more uniform than what it already is... Insane comes from the Brain, and no ones Brain is alike (thinks identically the same way, same thought line, everyday). This would be chaos theory of a system, and if insane people (standard 'insane') ruled the world it would be a much different place. However this isn't the case because it's a little of us all, and we're not all insane.. are we?

 

[Thallium]

Which God are we talking about? The God that philosophers try to construct out of their own reason or anything else?

 

[michelle s]

god the creator.

 

[TENYEARS]

Out of god everything is created, for god is everywhere. As to god creating insanity, it was not a choice for god. There is a choice at all moments a choiceless choice there is no destiny and yet the future may be seen. There are no mad people, only those who do not understand "mad" people. For the claimer of the mad are also mad. There is a relative expresion of what humans call madness relative to what is called a semi normal functioning, but from someone that witnesses absolute terms, all human action is madness. Sanity is achieved when you realize you are indeed mad. What species would do all that human kind does and call it humane or civilized? Questions may only be answered by oneself, each must climb the hill under their own power. Sometimes you may lend a hand to keep another from falling, or in anger push another, but the universe is just for the fall is slight but the manifestation of the system as a whole will be balanced and fair. If the universe was not fair, it could not exist.

 

[InfPerf000]

Can't u ppl stay on a subject!
I am talking about the christian god as most ppl no of, not the "god of grass" or sum **** like that.
And u obviously have no idea of the concept of christian "free will".
TENYEARS, don't post here any more please
I am also assuming for the moment that god does exist

 

[Enos]

You should have stated christian god in the first post. Many have different answer for different gods.

 

[Les Sleeth]

There is a simple answer to this question IF we don't arbitrarily assume anything about the "creator" other than it is something (being, forces, ?) which has been instrumental in bringing about creation.

If we don't assume the typical theological traits, then what can we use to guide us in imagining what a creator might be like? Well, the nature of creation itself could be a reflection of creationary nature and abilities. All of creation is energetic and vibratory, for example, so maybe those are part of the creationary qualities. Similarly, because creation does have problems, it could be that the creator is not perfect at all, and is not all knowing or all powerful. Maybe the creator is a learning force, an evolving force, an organizing force doing the best it can given the level of development it has achieved.

I might add, just because the creator isn't OMNI-EVERYTHING doesn't mean it isn't something pretty damn awesome nonetheless.

 

[InfPerf000]

You should have stated christian god in the first post. Many have different answer for different gods.

i quite clearly said christian in the 1st post

 

[Enos]

I think the creator would be OMNI-EVERYTHING.

As for the cristian god, if god were to make the universe in 7 days even that god has limits. That god would not be all knowing. Powerful, yes.

 

[Les Sleeth]

Can't u ppl stay on a subject!
I am talking about the christian god as most ppl no of, not the "god of grass" or sum **** like that.
And u obviously have no idea of the concept of christian "free will".
TENYEARS, don't post here any more please
I am also assuming for the moment that god does exist

As Enos said, you should have made your statement more clear up front. So don't act indignant when you are at fault (you only related Christian belief to free will). However, if you intend this to be a discussion about the "Christian" God, then you have also made this a religious issue which is forbidden to be discussed here at PF.

 

[Entropy]

How exactly do you know that insane people don't have free will?

What if God created insanity for the benifit of other human beings?

Insanity is a by product of the imperfection we [choose to] exercise. Choosing to do the wrong things can impact you more than you think. The way you choose to think can greatly alter the brain's chemistry. Not to mention the impact of other people's imperfect decision on your mind.

God supposedly created ALL human beings with free will. Christains do not believe that some people are less than others, as an example to them.

Wrong. According to the Bible people can and have lost the ablity to control themselves (aka lose free will as you might say) but they are not held accountable for their actions when this happens. Also not all people are equal in Christian beliefs, but only God can measure a man's worth.

But the problem is god didnt create the defect, society, nursing and upbringing did.

More accurately: God aloud it to be possible.

 

[InfPerf000]

As Enos said, you should have made your statement more clear up front. So don't act indignant when you are at fault (you only related Christian belief to free will). However, if you intend this to be a discussion about the "Christian" God, then you have also made this a religious issue which is forbidden to be discussed here at PF.

lmao
you are a matter

 

[InfPerf000]

How exactly do you know that insane people don't have free will?



Insanity is a by product of the imperfection we [choose to] exercise. Choosing to do the wrong things can impact you more than you think. The way you choose to think can greatly alter the brain's chemistry. Not to mention the impact of other people's imperfect decision on your mind.



Wrong. According to the Bible people can and have lost the ablity to control themselves (aka lose free will as you might say) but they are not held accountable for their actions when this happens. Also not all people are equal in Christian beliefs, but only God can measure a man's worth.



More accurately: God aloud it to be possible.

Trust me, i know insane ppl don't hav free will

 

[Les Sleeth]

lmao
you are a matter

Which means . . . ?

 

[Les Sleeth]

Trust me, i know insane ppl don't hav free will

"Trust me" is not a logical argument. Do you have a point to make or are you just here to ridicule religious belief?

 

[InfPerf000]

"Trust me" is not a logical argument. Do you have a point to make or are you just here to ridicule religious belief?

im here 2 ridicule. FULL STOP.

 

[Entropy]

Trust me, i know insane ppl don't hav free will

That about as ridiculous as me saying "Trust me, there is a God."

 

[Enos]

Trust me, there is a God.



:)

 

[Loren Booda]

Why would God create insanity?

He/She had to find a way to keep me busy - "Idle hands are the Devil's workshop."

Really, insanity is just another manifestation of biological illness. I had a friend who suffered from diabetes, and attacked policemen on several occasions. Recall that diabetes, a possible cause of low blood sugar and resultant aggravation, is primarily a disease of the pancreas! Also, the genetic anomaly XYY may contribute to criminality, yet is not immediately associated with a particular mental illness diagnosis.

The best analogy to mental illnesses is the effects of psychoactive drugs and their similarity to the symptoms of depression, mania, paranoia, hallucinations, delusions, anxiety... . Their purpose? In moderation, brain diseases like mania can become creativity, hallucinations become insight, and delusions - a career in politics.

 

[bola]

God does not exist, the universe is just a constantly changing blob of energy.
And you generalize 'insanity' too much, I myself have been diagnozed with schizophrenia and I know more about 'insanity' and psychotic episodes than anyone here probably.

insanity is not something you are born with, its not a state of mind even, it's a temporary mental solution to assign an external enemy to inner fears the mind can't understand.

as such, 'why did god create insanity', is both irrelevant and uninteresting, to me at least.

 

[Thallium]

Out of god everything is created, for god is everywhere. As to god creating insanity, it was not a choice for god. There is a choice at all moments a choiceless choice there is no destiny and yet the future may be seen. There are no mad people, only those who do not understand "mad" people. For the claimer of the mad are also mad. There is a relative expresion of what humans call madness relative to what is called a semi normal functioning, but from someone that witnesses absolute terms, all human action is madness. Sanity is achieved when you realize you are indeed mad. What species would do all that human kind does and call it humane or civilized? Questions may only be answered by oneself, each must climb the hill under their own power. Sometimes you may lend a hand to keep another from falling, or in anger push another, but the universe is just for the fall is slight but the manifestation of the system as a whole will be balanced and fair. If the universe was not fair, it could not exist.

Is God everywhere? Well which God? The Christian God, or the God you propose out of your own understanding? For Man can understand everything? Oh yes! *sarcastic*

 

[Thallium]

By the way. I was insane. I had a free will and that is why I sit here today!

 

[Loren Booda]

God creates insanity to cure it.

 

[Egmont]

I don't think it can be said that God created insanity, anymore than it can be said He created the habit of biting one's nails. If humans have free-will, then being sane or insane is a personal choice, not something God forces on people. And if we don't have free-will, then insanity just doesn't exist.

What people do have are distortions of perception, and that is something that can be "blamed" on God. If my eyes keep showing me things that don't exist in reality, then I have no choice but to behave accordingly. If I keep hearing a voice in my head and I can't shut it off, then it's only natural that my behavior will seem strange to other people. So the real question is, why would God create humans in a way that they can perceive things that don't exist, or fail to perceive things that exist? And the answer to that question, I think, is rather ordinary - because experiencing illusions is a small price to pay for the gift of having an imagination.

 

[Deeviant]

The main reason I created insanity is so I could be a god.

 

[TENYEARS]

That would be god I witnessed/experienced, same as Mosses, or the same as black elk or the homeless guy down the street or anyone else who witnessed the truth. I am me, but me was born to a catholic practicing family and I still practice with my own family. This label has no limitations for limitations are not real, but for those who make it real in their "mind".


Note: If an "insane" person does not have free will, do any of you? You call out what you believe and that is all. You decide upon what you believe and what you believe for the most part contradicts itself and you do not know the difference. This is the truth. A forum is like TV right, entertainment, an excuse, a little mind candy.

 

[syzygy]

I think the question is insane. Did God create bashfulness, bravado, ADHD, pleurisy, arthritis? If God created us he got the whole ball of wax. Did he have all our parts scattered on the ground and say, ok, the arm goes here, the torso there, oh, yes, and let's not forget to throw in the insanity! But where do I put it? I know! I'll put it in Eve's head and Adam's genitals.

 

[pmb_phy]

If we and this world were indeed created by an almighty "god" then "he" could not have created insanity. According to christians, we were all created with free will and that is the reason that there is violence and suffering in the world. However, insane people do not necessarily have free will. The reasoning behind this "free will" is flawed as some people do not have it all of the time. Why would "god" "create" insanity?

I don't believe that God created insanity. All things that exist are not creations of God in my opinion. Things happen which God doesn't like. For example, God didn't like how humans turned out at one point, i.e.

Genisis 6:6 - The Lord was grieved that he had made man on earth, and his heart was filled with pain.

Do you think that God forsaw how man would turn out and he knew that he'd be in pain and have to wipe them out before he even created the universe? I don't think its that way. I think that some things he doesn't know and that's how things will come to be and how humans will turn out, sickness and all. In this case God did not forsee people being scum that he'd have to wipe out with the great flood.

But this is my personal opinion.

Pete

 

[syzygy]

I don't believe that God created insanity. All things that exist are not creations of God in my opinion. Things happen which God doesn't like. For example, God didn't like how humans turned out at one point, i.e.

Do you think that God forsaw how man would turn out and he knew that he'd be in pain and have to wipe them out before he even created the universe? I don't think its that way. I think that some things he doesn't know and that's how things will come to be and how humans will turn out, sickness and all. In this case God did not forsee people being scum that he'd have to wipe out with the great flood.

But this is my personal opinion.

Pete

Have you ever known a newborn child to be scum? A 2 yr. old? If God didn't know that the people he created would turn out to be scum, and he IS supposed to be all-knowing, is he not, then how could he know that the children he supposedly wiped out couldn't have been worthwhile human beings if they'd been given the chance to live? It's all a bunch of poppy cock in my estimation. If I'm going to believe in a god, it will be a more benevolent one than one who says the hell with it, you're all going to die. And people wonder how other people can be atheists...

 

[False Prophet]

Why did God create insanity?

Because he's INSANE!

 

[Matter]

No ideas

If there was no 'insane' would there be 'sanity'?

 

[Matter]

I don't believe that God created insanity. All things that exist are not creations of God in my opinion. Things happen which God doesn't like. For example, God didn't like how humans turned out at one point, i.e.

Do you think that God forsaw how man would turn out and he knew that he'd be in pain and have to wipe them out before he even created the universe? I don't think its that way. I think that some things he doesn't know and that's how things will come to be and how humans will turn out, sickness and all. In this case God did not forsee people being scum that he'd have to wipe out with the great flood.

But this is my personal opinion.

Pete

"God didn't know"! which bible are you reading? From the bits I've botherd reading 'he' (thats God) comes a cross as all knowing!

 

[pmb_phy]

"God didn't know"! which bible are you reading? From the bits I've botherd reading 'he' (thats God) comes a cross as all knowing!

Please show me where the Bible says that God is all knowing and what that means. For all I know it means that God knows all there is to know and since the future is not here yet then that is not something knowable. I can't see how there can be free will when God knows all details of the future. Please explain that to me.

Also did you not read where I said - But this is my personal opinion?That means that if the Bible says the God is all knowing and that means he knows the future then I think the Bible is wrong on that point. God did not write the Bible. People did.

Have you ever known a newborn child to be scum? A 2 yr. old? If God didn't know that the people he created would turn out to be scum, and he IS supposed to be all-knowing, is he not, then how could he know that the children he supposedly wiped out couldn't have been worthwhile human beings if they'd been given the chance to live?

When I see God I'll ask him and get back to you. In anycase you're jumping to conclusions. For all we know God wiped them all out because he knows that scum will raise their children to be scum. Since we don't know anything about those people we can't say.

It's all a bunch of poppy cock in my estimation. If I'm going to believe in a god, it will be a more benevolent one than one who says the hell with it, you're all going to die. And people wonder how other people can be atheists...

You're assuming that death is a horrible thing in the eyes of God. Tell us - If you believe in God and the Bible then what is it you think happens after death? Especially from back then. We don't know any facts, that's for sure. For all we know God "recycled" those souls into a new life where they got to start all over again in a decent society.

And people wonder why God and the Bible has a bad reputation - they think they can read and understand the mind of God.

Pete

 

[Matter]

you are correct, I have been unable to find a passage in the bible that says god knows the future. My apologys on my uninformed assumption.

 

[olde drunk]

i see a god that is 'aware' of all that happens; not knowing. we have freewill to experience this world, this is our current focus and playground.

if we come to understand experience, we move on to other areas of the universe. if we become enamoured of this world or fail to get the message, we get recycled.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[pmb_phy]

you are correct, I have been unable to find a passage in the bible that says god knows the future. My apologys on my uninformed assumption.

No problemo. We live and learn. After all, that's why we're here, right?

Pete

 

[syzygy]

As to His Omnipresence:

"and He it is that encompasses all things." (IV : 126).

" . . . . and wherever you turn, there is God's countenance. Lo! God is All-Embracing, All-Knowing." (QsII : 115).

 

[pmb_phy]

As to His Omnipresence:

"and He it is that encompasses all things." (IV : 126).

" . . . . and wherever you turn, there is God's countenance. Lo! God is All-Embracing, All-Knowing." (QsII : 115).

As I said above - For all I know it means that God knows all there is to know and since the future is not here yet then that is not something knowable.

Pete

 

[TENYEARS]

The real truth is you are afraid to realize what you already know because the truth of god is so dam scarry that you would rather deny reality, than be subject to the pain of knowing the truth. It is normal, it is part of the process. Life sometimes puts us in a position for the realization of this truth and sometimes not. The old must be cleared away for the mind to see what is. Would you know words born from truth or must they be the word of the day the week the month. Must it be the headline in science magazine or the latesest periodical, if these are your truths if books are the source of you knowlege, then you will be blind until they are not.

 

[False Prophet]

God has a crystal ball, he can see the future just like we can see the past. Maybe God is the future and the past. God is so rich at least he could go buy a crystal ball to see the future.

 

[Thallium]

God did not create insanity. It was the Devil who interfered with sanity.

 

[cragwolf]

God creates insanity to cure it.

That would be a very sadistic god.

 

[Loren Booda]

I think so when I feel insane.

 

[Artorius]

The question, "Why would god create insanity?" implies the existence of this thing called "god." So, I ask, "What is god?" Since this question cannot be answered intelligibly, the question regarding the existence of insanity similarly cannot be answered within the context of this thing called "god."

Within the context of science, however, the presence of insanity can be explained as an imbalance in chemicals that are in the brain, a lack of development of a certain part of the brain, or some injury to the brain. Science can explain insanity's existence. This "god" thing cannot.

 

[Philocrat]

If we and this world were indeed created by an almighty "god" then "he" could not have created insanity.

This is a very GOOD ARGUMENT...and it is completely true. But a more logically reliable and consistent way to put it is to say:

since God is still creating the world, God has, and never had, no 'INTENTION' of creating insanity, and even if there is currently one, there is no proof that GOD intends to leave it permanently in us.

According to christians, we were all created with free will and that is the reason that there is violence and suffering in the world. However, insane people do not necessarily have free will. The reasoning behind this "free will" is flawed as some people do not have it all of the time. Why would "god" "create" insanity?

The problem with free will is that you cannot install it in things that are structurally and functionally defective by their original designs. Worst still, attempt to install things with free will in chaotic places such as our present universe. In Chaotic Places, you have INTENDED CAUSAL PATHWAYS mixed with ALTERNATIVE (UNINTENDED) CAUSAL PATHWAYS, and since the will is free to choose, what would stop it from choosing one or the other, or even a combination of both? Nothing. So, a logically sound argument is to say:

Since God created the world and is still doing so with the full 'INTENTION' of bringing it to a PERFECT CONCLUSION, God had no 'INTENTION' of installing wanted and unwanted causal pathways in one chaotic place and install a free-willing being within. Man shall one day always ply God's Intended causal pathway and choose what is always good, without any cause for deviating into God's unwanted alternative causal pathways.