Why x^2/(1+x^2) > u Near Infinity: Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the limit of the function $\frac{x^2}{1+x^2}$ as $x$ approaches infinity and its implications for values less than 1. Participants explore the reasoning behind why this limit suggests that $\frac{x^2}{1+x^2}$ is greater than any $u < 1$ near infinity. The conversation also touches on concepts of supremum and maximum in the context of this function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that the limit $\lim_{x \to \pm \infty} \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}=1$ implies that for any $u<1$, the inequality $\frac{x^2}{1+x^2}>u$ holds for sufficiently large $x$.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of limits and how selecting $\varepsilon = 1-u$ leads to the conclusion that $\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} > u$ for large $x$.
  • Participants question the reasoning behind using the limit to find the supremum of the function $\frac{x^2}{1+x^2}$ and discuss the need to verify local, boundary, and asymptotic extrema.
  • Some participants express confusion about the difference between maximum and supremum, leading to a clarification that the supremum is the least upper bound while the maximum is the highest value attained by the function.
  • There is a contention regarding the maximum value of the function, with some asserting it is 1, while others argue that there is no maximum since the function approaches 1 but never reaches it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the limit's implications for values less than 1, but there is disagreement regarding the concepts of maximum and supremum, as well as the interpretation of the function's behavior at infinity.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of supremum versus maximum, and there are unresolved questions about the function's behavior across its entire domain.

evinda
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Hello! :)
Could you explain me why $lim_{x \to \pm \infty} \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}=1$ implies that $\forall u<1, \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}>u$ near to $\pm \infty$ ?
 
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evinda said:
Hello! :)
Could you explain me why $lim_{x \to \pm \infty} \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}=1$ implies that $\forall u<1, \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}>u$ near to $\pm \infty$ ?

The statement $\lim\limits_{x \to \infty} \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}=1$ is defined to mean that for any $\varepsilon>0$ there is a $N$ such that for any $x>N$:
$$\left|\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} - 1\right| < \varepsilon$$If we pick any $u<1$, we can select $\varepsilon = 1-u$, meaning that there is a $N$ such that for any $x>N$:
$$\left|\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} - 1\right| < 1-u$$
This implies that:
$$1 - \frac{x^2}{1+x^2} < 1-u$$
$$\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} > u$$
 
I like Serena said:
The statement $\lim\limits_{x \to \infty} \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}=1$ is defined to mean that for any $\varepsilon>0$ there is a $N$ such that for any $x>N$:
$$\left|\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} - 1\right| < \varepsilon$$If we pick any $u<1$, we can select $\varepsilon = 1-u$, meaning that there is a $N$ such that for any $x>N$:
$$\left|\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} - 1\right| < 1-u$$
This implies that:
$$1 - \frac{x^2}{1+x^2} < 1-u$$
$$\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} > u$$

I understand.. :) Thank you very much!
 
I like Serena said:
The statement $\lim\limits_{x \to \infty} \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}=1$ is defined to mean that for any $\varepsilon>0$ there is a $N$ such that for any $x>N$:
$$\left|\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} - 1\right| < \varepsilon$$If we pick any $u<1$, we can select $\varepsilon = 1-u$, meaning that there is a $N$ such that for any $x>N$:
$$\left|\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} - 1\right| < 1-u$$
This implies that:
$$1 - \frac{x^2}{1+x^2} < 1-u$$
$$\frac{x^2}{1+x^2} > u$$

I am looking again at the exercise at which I found this limit..

It is:

$$f,g: \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}, f(x)=\frac{x^2}{1+x^2}, g(x)=0 \forall x$$

We want to calculate $\displaystyle{ |f-g|_{\mathbb{R}}= \sup \{ \frac{x^2}{1+x^2} , x \in \mathbb{R} \}}$

Why,in order to find this supremum,do we take $\displaystyle{ \lim_{x \to \pm \infty } \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}}$ ? (Thinking) (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
We want to calculate $\displaystyle{ |f-g|_{\mathbb{R}}= \sup \{ \frac{x^2}{1+x^2} , x \in \mathbb{R} \}}$

Why,in order to find this supremum,do we take $\displaystyle{ \lim_{x \to \pm \infty } \frac{x^2}{1+x^2}}$ ? (Thinking) (Thinking)

To find the supremum we need to verify all local extrema, all boundary extrema, and all asymptotic extrema.
In this particular case the supremum is reached in an asymptote. (Nerd)
 
I like Serena said:
To find the supremum we need to verify all local extrema, all boundary extrema, and all asymptotic extrema.
In this particular case the supremum is reached in an asymptote. (Nerd)

Why is it like that? (Thinking)

I thought that we find the monotonicity of $|f-g|$ and if it is increasing we take the maximum of the interval,and if it is decreasing the minimum.. (Sweating)
 
evinda said:
Why is it like that? (Thinking)

I thought that we find the monotonicity of $|f-g|$ and if it is increasing we take the maximum of the interval,and if it is decreasing the minimum.. (Sweating)

What is the difference between a maximum and a supremum? (Wondering)

Where do you think the maximum is on the interval $(-\infty, +\infty)$? (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
What is the difference between a maximum and a supremum? (Wondering)

Where do you think the maximum is on the interval $(-\infty, +\infty)$? (Thinking)

The supremum is $+\infty$ and the maximum is an $a \in (-\infty, +\infty)$,right? (Blush)
 
evinda said:
The supremum is $+\infty$ and the maximum is an $a \in (-\infty, +\infty)$,right? (Blush)

Erm... no. (Worried)

The maximum is the highest value the function takes for some $a \in (-\infty, +\infty)$.
In this case there is no such value, since there is always a higher value.

The supremum is the lowest upper bound for the maximum.
In this case it is $1$.
 
  • #10
I like Serena said:
Erm... no. (Worried)

The maximum is the highest value the function takes for some $a \in (-\infty, +\infty)$.
In this case there is no such value, since there is always a higher value.

The supremum is the lowest upper bound for the maximum.
In this case it is $1$.

I understand! Thank you very much! (Smile)
 

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