Work done by friction force problem

AI Thread Summary
A 50 kg trunk is pulled 6.0 meters up a 30-degree incline at constant velocity, with a kinetic friction coefficient of 0.2. The calculations for the work done by the applied force, gravity, and frictional force yield discrepancies when compared to textbook answers. The applied force was calculated as 330N, while frictional force was found to be 85N, leading to a work done by friction of 510J and an applied force work of 2000J. Participants debated the correct interpretation of work done by friction, emphasizing that it should be calculated using the force and displacement along the incline, not just horizontal distance. The discussion highlights the complexity of work done by non-conservative forces and the importance of precise definitions in physics problems.
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Homework Statement


A 50 kg trunk is pulled 6.0 meters up a 30 degree incline at a constant velocity. The coefficient of kenetic friction is .2. What is a) the work done by the applied force, b) the work done by gravity and c) the work done by the frictional force

I set up my x-axis in the direction of the incline and my y-axis normal to the incline.

F_N normal force
F_g gravity
F_A applied force
F_f frictional force

Homework Equations


\sum F = 0
\sum F_x = 0 = F_A - F_f - F_{gx}
\sum F_y = 0 = F_N - F_{gy}
F_N = F_{gy} = F_g \cos 30 = (9.8)(50)(\cos 30) = 420N
F_f = \mu_k F_N = (420)(.2) = 85N
F_A = F_f + F_{gy} = \mu_k F_N + \sin 30 F_g = 85 + (.5)(9.8)(50) = 330N

W_f = f_k \cdot \delta d
W_g = mgh = (9.8)(50)(6 \sin 30) = 1500J
W_f = F \cdot d = (85)(6.0)(\cos 0) = 510J
W_a = F \cdot d = (330)(6.0)(\cos 0) = 2000J

However, the answers in the book says that a) 2200J b) 1500J c) 700
I can't seem to find my error. Any suggestions?


The Attempt at a Solution

 
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I must be missing something as well or book is in error. Maybe others will see something wrong. By the way, very nice presentation of problem and work.
 
The work done by the applied force is mgh + W(friction).
W(friction)=mg(6cos30)(cos30). (The work done due to frictional force is mgx where x is the horizontal distance moved.
 
chaos,
For the frictional force, I don't follow. You say one thing and express another, ie from your verbal comments, the eqn should be mg*mu*cos(30)*6. But you have two cosines in the math expression. I agree with the worded part. In any event the frictional work just got smaller if we multiply again by
1/2sqrt(3). The book result is bigger than the OP has calculated.
 
chaoseverlasting said:
The work done by the applied force is mgh + W(friction).
W(friction)=mg(6cos30)(cos30). (The work done due to frictional force is mgx where x is the horizontal distance moved.

I believe that this is incorrect because it assumes that the F_f is conservative, however it is non-conservative. I believe what confused chaos is the use of x in the definition for W_f where they really meant s. If we change the definition of the work done by a non-conservative force to a more generic:

W = \int_S F \cdot ds

Where work is a line integral of the dot product of the F_f and ds over the curve. If we view the hypotenuse as a curve (which it is, albeit a simplistic one) the work done cannot be determined by the dispacement ((6 \cos 30)(\cos 30) =displacement vector) but you need to know the path it took to get to there.
 
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totally agree, its a line integral, one could devise a bunch of humps and valleys where the net horizontal displacement had little to do with the amt of f frictional work. Inthe extreme case, one could go nowhere and burn a lot of energy.
 
Your work looks correct to me the in your first post.

I don't buy this comment:

The work done due to frictional force is mgx where x is the horizontal distance moved.

Work due to friction is the force dotted with the displacement. In this case, its 6m up the ramp.

Good luck, hooah.
 
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