Work-Energy Principle: Pulley System

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around the application of the Work-Energy Principle and Newton's laws to analyze a pulley system involving two masses, M and m. The user initially derived the downward speed of mass m using Newton's laws, noting that the acceleration of mass M is half that of mass m. They later attempted to apply the Work-Energy principle but encountered confusion regarding the work done by tension forces and the correct expression for total work. Ultimately, they realized their calculations were incorrect and acknowledged that the answers from both approaches should align. Clarification was provided, confirming that the user's final understanding matched the book's solution.
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Homework Statement


(see attatchment)

We know masses M and m, and I am trying to describe the downward speed of m in terms of the hight from the ground. There is no friction

Homework Equations



\sum \text{F} = ma
W_{\text{total}} = \Delta K = \int \text{F} \cdot d\text{s}

The Attempt at a Solution



I first need to note that the distance moved by M is half of that moved by m and thus the acceleration of M is half that of m, or a_M = a_m/2.

I first solved the problem using only Newtons laws, so from the FBD I solved for the acceleration of m:

$$a_m = v\frac{dv}{dh} = \frac{mg}{M/4 + m} \implies v = \sqrt{\frac{2mgh}{M/4 + m}}$$

Now if I use the Work-Energy principle, I get that W_{\text{total}} = W_{\text{tension}_x} + W_{\text{tension}_y} + W_g.

This is where I think I am not understanding something:

Work done by tension on M is equal to the work done by tension on m even though force of tension on M is twice that of the force of tension on m because it travels half the distance, and since tension acting on m is acting opposite the direction of motion, it is negative, so W_{\text{tension}_x} = -W_{\text{tension}_y}, so

$$W_{\text{total}} = W_g = mgh = \frac{1}{2}(m + M)v^2 = \Delta K $$
so

v = \sqrt{\frac{2mgh}{m+M}}

I am not sure what I am missing that gives me m+M instead of m + M/4 in the denominator. I would appreciate some help!

Thanks

[EDIT] The answer in the back of the book is the same as the answer I got using Newtons laws
 

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matineesuxxx said:
$$W_{\text{total}} = W_g = mgh = \frac{1}{2}(m + M)v^2 = \Delta K $$

The masses are moving with different speeds .
 
Last edited:
Tanya Sharma said:
The masses are moving with different speeds .

Hah, wow. Total brain fart there. Thank you very much!
 
Even the answer you are getting by force approach is incorrect .
 
Tanya Sharma said:
Even the answer you are getting by force approach is incorrect .

How is that? It's the same as in the book as well
 
Sorry ... its correct .
 
Thanks for your help.
 
You are welcome :)
 
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