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World chess championship 2013,disaster or miracle?

  1. Nov 16, 2013 #1
    Anybody here keeping track of the WCC 2013?

    4 draws in the beginning and 2 wins for Carlsen!!!

    Anand must have panicked after the first defeat ,i feel he should have settled for a draw after his first defeat ,cool himself down and then may be go for a win.

    What might have happened ? his voice was trembling during the press conference!! after the match.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 16, 2013 #2
    Disaster for Anand and miracle for Carlsen. Both the games that Anand lost were slow grindings from theoretically equal endgames. Perhaps in his youth he could have calculated like the 22 year old Norwegian but at 43 years of age his endgame seemed very inconsistent. One or Two mistakes is all it takes. I do not recall any other world championship match in which endgames played such a critical role.

    Carlsen can now defend and draw his way to the title. I would say that his win is almost certain.
     
  4. Nov 16, 2013 #3
    Yea ,4 decisive games out of 12 is almost impossible in a world championship ,has it ever happened before?
     
  5. Nov 16, 2013 #4

    PeroK

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    Fischer-Spassky had 8 decisive games in the first 13.

    Karpov was 4-0 up after 9 games in the first match against Kasparov.

    Karpov won 3 in a row against Kasparov in 1986 (from 4-1 down).

    Kasparov was 5-0 up after 9 games against Short.

    I'm sure there are others.
     
  6. Nov 16, 2013 #5

    berkeman

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    Link to the current championship? :smile:
     
  7. Nov 16, 2013 #6

    fluidistic

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    To berkeman: http://chennai2013.fide.com/.
    Neither a miracle or disaster. Anand is about 95 elo below Carlsen. He's number 8 or 9 in terms of elo while Carlsen is number 1 way over all the others. Carlsen is basically in another ball park.
    What other results one should have expected? 6 games, 2 wins for Carlsen and 4 draws seem quite reasonable.
    Anyway both players generally blunders several times per game (top engines can spot many blunders in almost no time).
    For those interested, there's a much "better" chess tournament currently being hold (bot vs bot) at http://tcec.chessdom.com/live.php. By better I mean much higher quality games in terms of blunders compared to the human world championship.
    Game 18 of stage 4, Houdini vs Stockfish was a masterpiece. Houdini didn't realize it was lost for about 5 moves in a row. The evaluations of the engine were, at one moment, 10.88 (for Stockfish) and 0.09 for Houdini!
    Many other games were very beautiful and deep too.
    Enjoy.
     
  8. Nov 17, 2013 #7
    Yea... but looking at the first 4 draws it was as if Carlsen was not so much better than other people at the top and both dominated different phases of the games that were drawn, even the games won were narrow wins which should have theoretically ended in a draw like consciousness said . The 2nd loss i feel was the aftermath of the shock Anand got after first defeat.I didn't expect Anand to win but ,i just didn't expect 2 consecutive losses after the 2 good fighting draws. Anyway Anand's reign looks basically over.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  9. Nov 17, 2013 #8

    arildno

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    Rather nonsensical on your part.
    the only humans capable of actually learning anything from supercomputers are..supergrandmasters.

    Deep strategies dependening on the capacity of calculating hundreds of millions of moves will, precisely for that reason, be completely unattainable for any human being (but a supergrandmaster might learn a few subtleties from them)
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  10. Nov 17, 2013 #9
    Did you follow the games? Especially the the third one in which Carlsen admitted that he was "just trying to survive". Carlsen's astronomical rating isn't an accurate meter stick to gauge his performance against top ten players, it has become so high because he pushes on and beats 2600-2700 rated players when most players would be satisfied with a draw.

    Engines make blunders too (otherwise all their games will be drawn). Also their matches lack any emotion or drama.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
  11. Nov 17, 2013 #10

    arildno

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    Carlsen's superb technique of always creating (tiny) complications for his opponents (while keeping the escape route for himself always open) means that his opponent must remain MAXIMALLY ALERT, and be able to reshift his strategies for move after move, hour after hour.

    This technique is, of course, mentally extremely draining to go up against, leading to "silly mistakes" made by his opponents.

    Carlsen's fiendish cleverness as an extremely annoying riddlemaster exhausts his opponents mentally in positions that ought to be drawn.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    An exhausted man is unable to bat away the last mosquito, and is sucked dry at last.
     
  12. Nov 17, 2013 #11

    fluidistic

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    I do not think the second loss was due to the first loss. The game was drawn up to move 60 where Anand blundered with Ra4. Instead of Ra4, b4 would have saved the boat. Anand did not even realize this after the game had finished though. He thought that he was lost at move 58 if I remember well (I am not 100% sure).


    I am sorry to have offended. Yes of course very few people can learn from such games. In fact I think many "weak" people can learn/memorize the moves that are just after the end of the opening, with the help of bots.
    But it is very beautiful, at least for many people, to watch a game where a bot is down 2 pawns for 20 moves and then win. Or the game I linked, where white in the final position had 1 rook only and black had a queen a knight and white wins.

    Yes I followed the games and you are right, in the third game Carlsen could have lost, especially if Anand had "punished" Carlsen's blunder(s) but he did not.
    With respect to Carlsen's high rating, I haven't followed his games at all (nor the ones of other humans) but still, if he does win games that most other GM would be happy to draw, I believe he is really stronger than the other GM's. You can't just assume that the other GM's could beat the 2600-2700 rated guys as much as Carlsen do.
    About engines, of course they make blunders. What is beautiful about the blunders is that generally they are small ones compared to humans and they get punished. Sometimes it produces masterpieces, especially when there is some huge material imbalance. And I do not agree, the games of engines can turn rather quite dramatic!
     
  13. Nov 17, 2013 #12

    arildno

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    The movements of The Gods are, of course, graceful and beautiful.
    But, you won't improve your own skills by gawking at them.

    But, then again, you won't become a good composer listening to a Mozart symphony, either, but it has its own value, nonetheless.
    :smile:
     
  14. Nov 17, 2013 #13
    Hum.. I'm interested in knowing who plays chess here, at PF. I might create a new topic for it though.

    Question:

    The first one getting to 6.5 points gets to be the next chess world champion, right?
     
  15. Nov 17, 2013 #14

    arildno

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    Crake2:
    A few years back, there was a chess playing facility at PF. It has been removed since then, I think.

    To your question:
    Yes.
     
  16. Nov 17, 2013 #15

    arildno

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    By the way, I now predict Carlsen will massacre Anand on Monday, horsewhipping the Indian master out of his throne.

    I would have liked a more even match, but Anand has been in a very negative psychic spiral that becomes progressively self-fulfilling.

    In short, playing a match against Carlsen is to endure the merciless Carlsen technique day after day, not just hour after hour.

    Anand has lost all hopes of winning, and only a miraculous blunder from Carlsen now on Monday will let Anand regain his usual fighting spirit.
     
  17. Nov 17, 2013 #16
    :grumpy::grumpy::grumpy::grumpy::grumpy::grumpy::grumpy::grumpy: :grumpy: :grumpy::grumpy::grumpy:
    Sherlock---You-Repel-Me-PLUS.jpg
    .....
    could have put it more gently Arildno...truth hurts.
    :cry:
     
  18. Nov 17, 2013 #17
    I hope Carlsen becomes overconfident like this and loses a match by the way i noticed Anand in a panicky state even before the first match he lost ,he stole a glance at Carlsen for a few seconds at a time,throughout the match as if he new something was coming. I have never seen him look at the opponent's face when playing,maybe he should have resigned when he was at the top, he is old and chubby now,his age has caught up with him.

    It's not as if Carlsen didn't blunder ,it's just that his blunders went unpunished.
    If Anand has to win he will have to get everything right in the opening and take the lead and not let it go because i have heard that Carlsen doesn't do that well in openings( in the last 6 matches).
     
  19. Nov 18, 2013 #18

    DavidSnider

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  20. Nov 18, 2013 #19
    My cat has an account on that website, better make him join...
     
  21. Nov 18, 2013 #20
    Another draw ,poor Anand managed to stop the losing momentum.
     
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