Zero momentum reference frame and an inelastic collision

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on calculating the final velocities of two colliding carts in a zero momentum reference frame after an inelastic collision. Both carts, each with a mass of 2 kg, have initial velocities of 3 m/s in the i-hat direction and varying j-hat components. The collision releases 12 J of energy, and the zero momentum reference frame's velocity is determined to be 3 m/s in both i-hat and j-hat directions. The participants emphasize the importance of using momentum and kinetic energy equations to find the final velocities, despite initial confusion regarding the inelastic nature of the collision.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of inelastic collisions and momentum conservation
  • Familiarity with kinetic energy equations, specifically K = 1/2 * m * v²
  • Knowledge of vector components and their magnitudes
  • Ability to manipulate equations involving energy and momentum
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the principles of momentum conservation in inelastic collisions
  • Learn how to apply the kinetic energy equation in collision scenarios
  • Explore the concept of reference frames in physics, particularly zero momentum reference frames
  • Practice solving problems involving vector components and their magnitudes
USEFUL FOR

Students studying physics, particularly those focusing on mechanics and collision theory, as well as educators seeking to clarify concepts related to momentum and energy in inelastic collisions.

Cutetys
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Homework Statement


In my reference frame, I see two carts collide. Both cart A and Cart B have a mass of 2 kg. Cart A has initial velocity v= 3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat, cart B has initial velocity v= 3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat. 12 J are released in the collision.

In previous parts of this question I found:
The velocity of the zero momentum reference frame relative to me is: 3 m/s I-hat +3 m/s j-hat.
And the two velocities of the carts in the zero momentum reference frame are: Cart A = 0 m/s I-hat - 1 m/s j-hat, Cart B = 0 m/s I-hat + 1 m/s j-hat.

Q: Determine the final velocity of the two carts relative to the zero momentum reference frame.

Homework Equations


ΔK= Kf - Ki
K= 1/2*m*v2
m*v1i + m*v2i = m*v1f + m*v2i
vAo=vAB + vBo maybe?

The Attempt at a Solution


So I know change in ΔK is involved as that it is given in the the question and it isn’t relevant for any questions to follow. I’ve tried combining the momentum and kinetic energy equations but that proved to be useless. (EDIT: I did not originally show my work for this. Sorry about that, here it is :
va= 32 m/s i-hat + 22 m/s j-hat = √13 m/s
vb= 32 m/s I-hat + 42 m/s j-hat = √25 m/s
-12 J = Kf - (1/2*2kg(√(25m/s)2 + (√13m/s)2)
-12 = v1f + v2f - 38 J
26 J - v2f = v1f
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (v1f + v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (26 J - v2f) + 2 kg(v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 52 kg*J - 2 kg(v2f) + 2 kg(v2f))

I know how to attempt this question if the collision were elastic (v12i = -v12f) but as this collision is inelastic I haven’t found a way to use it.This collision does not appear to be totally inelastic either so I cannot find the velocities through that route.

At this point I have no clue what to try next and I really could use an idea to bounce off of. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
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Cutetys said:
I’ve tried combining the momentum and kinetic energy equations but that proved to be useless.
That should be the way. please post your working.
 
haruspex said:
That should be the way. please post your working.

Sorry bout that, here’s my work:
va= 3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat = 13^1\2 m/s
vb= 3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat = 25^1/2 m/s
-12 J = Kf - (1/2*2((25^1\2)^2 + (13^1/2)*2)
-12 = v1f + v2f - 38 J
26 J - v2f = v1f
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (v1f + v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (26 J - v2f) + 2 kg(v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 52 kg*J - 2 kg(v2f) + 2 kg(v2f)

And that’s where I come to to a problem. - 2 kg(v2f) + 2 kg(v2f) = 0, so from this equation I can not find v2f or v1f.
 
Cutetys said:
3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat = 13^1\2 m/s
I assume you mean the magnitude of that vector is √13.
Cutetys said:
-12 = v1f + v2f - 38 J
v1f and v2f are not energies.

Your work would be much easier to read if you were to use the subscript and superscript buttons (X2, X2). Better still, LaTeX.
 
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haruspex said:
I assume you mean the magnitude of that vector is √13.

v1f and v2f are not energies.

Your work would be much easier to read if you were to use the subscript and superscript buttons (X2, X2). Better still, LaTeX.

Sorry, I'm new to the forum so I didn't realize those option were there. I've edited my original post so hopefully it's easier to read.
You are also correct, I meant the magnitude of the vector. I also edited it to make that more clear.
These edits probably don't matter too much as I think I know where I'm going wrong now. Thank you so much!
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

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