Zero-point energy - a question for you all.

[avemt1]

Like I said, you cannot extract energy from the Casimir effect. So there isn't any 1st law issue.

wrong read this
http://www.physicspost.com/articles.php?articleId=114&page=1

 

[juju]

Hi,

The ideas about vacuum energy density and its origin are still in flux.

Calculated from dark energy and casmir effect considerations it appears to be rather small.

However, calculated from first principals it appears to be rather large. This discrepancy is still being investigated.

The discrepancy may be due to phase considerations in a wave approach to the problem.

I also remember reading of a discussion between Hawking and Penrose, where the vacuum energy density was considered as an evolution of the Weyl tensor from the time of the big bang.

juju

 

[NoTime]

wrong read this
http://www.physicspost.com/articles.php?articleId=114&page=1

Hmmm. Brownian ratchet molecule on a shaft?

Can't see how that would violate the first law though.
Throw baseballs at a water wheel.
Seems to me that it would work out to much the same thing.

 

[avemt1]

Hmmm. Brownian ratchet molecule on a shaft?

Can't see how that would violate the first law though.
Throw baseballs at a water wheel.
Seems to me that it would work out to much the same thing.

could it be that the casmir effect is present due to the strong cohesive properties of metal? Could cohesive properties be pulling the metal sheets together? Does anyone think we could harvest this energy in any other way than already stated, and what would be the first law?

 

[selfAdjoint]

could it be that the casmir effect is present due to the strong cohesive properties of metal? Could cohesive properties be pulling the metal sheets together? Does anyone think we could harvest this energy in any other way than already stated, and what would be the first law?

No, the experimenters have allowed for those forces. They'd have been pretty dumb if they haven's, because the cohesive forces are well understood.

 

[avemt1]

Well then what would be the forst law that russ_watters was talking about earlier?

 

[da_willem]

The first law of thermodynamics; conservation of energy...

 

[avemt1]

Energy can not be created or destroyed, only converted.
Is that the one?
This would cause a very hard dilema. We might be able to find where the casmir effect originates if the device was ever created, or destroy our veiw of physics all together.

 

[Chronos]

That would be a good one to keep in mind the next time you design a free energy machine. The Casimir effect is a local effect. You can unbalance any force locally. The net energy of the global system is, however, unchanged.

 

[avemt1]

We might be able to find where the casmir effect originates if the device was ever created, or destroy our veiw of physics all together.

That would be a good one to keep in mind the next time you design a free energy machine. The Casimir effect is a local effect. You can unbalance any force locally. The net energy of the global system is, however, unchanged.

If you take energy from an energy system at a local point, such as the casmir effect, shouldn't energy be converted from the system?
Could you then find the place in the system that the energy was taken from, and use equations to find the path of the loss of energy. Almost like you would figure the path of an electrical surge?

 

[NoTime]

That would be a good one to keep in mind the next time you design a free energy machine. The Casimir effect is a local effect. You can unbalance any force locally. The net energy of the global system is, however, unchanged.

Isn't it an old argument about if our Universe is open or closed?
If the Universe is open, then the net energy of what we consider the global system could very well be subject to change.
Although perhaps not for the actual global.

It seems that is what Hawking's new work is about anyway.
An attempt to close the global system.

 

[juju]

Hi,

I have heard the Casimir effect explained as an effect of an unbalanced zero point quantum fluctuation pressure on the plates. Since some frequencies of zero point energy would be excluded from between the plates, the pressure on the outside would be greater.

Lately I have read of an explanation of unbalanced electrostatic forces created by the charge matrix of the plates. Since the Casimir effect only works for conductors, some sort of EM force might be involved.

juju

 

[da_willem]

Since the Casimir effect only works for conductors, some sort of EM force might be involved

You're very right! What do you think these 'zero point quantum fluctuations' are?

 

[juju]

You're very right! What do you think these 'zero point quantum fluctuations' are?

I have read more than one explanation of Zero point energy. One explanation is that they are electromagnetic in nature. Another is that the are energy/momentum fluctuations in a sort of GR sense. I don't think anyone know for sure.

juju