What is the reality of finding a perfect partner?

[honestrosewater]

What is wrong with men?!?

Of course I don't think the same thing is wrong with all of them. That's just my way of saying that I'm sad and frustrated because I'd like to not be alone for the rest of my life, but I don't know what to do about it.

(Men and women,) What would you expect your spouse-type partner person to give up in order to have a happy relationship with you?

 

[Hurkyl]

There's nothing wrong with being alone. Surely it beats trying to get into a bad relationship just so you're in a relationship?

 

[Pengwuino]

(Men and women,) What would you expect your spouse-type partner person to give up in order to have a happy relationship with you?

Free will.

 

[russ_watters]

Give up? Besides loneliness? I'm surprised to even hear that question...

 

[honestrosewater]

There's nothing wrong with being alone. Surely it beats trying to get into a bad relationship just so you're in a relationship?

Exactly.

So will you marry me? Or, wait... what was I saying?

 

[honestrosewater]

Give up? Besides loneliness? I'm surprised to even hear that question...

Why? I didn't mean to exclude "nothing" as a possible answer. But surely you expect them to give up some things -- I didn't see any reason to sugarcoat it. Maybe trade would have been a better word?

BTW, I'm just wondering what some people's expectations are. I think I already know for the most part what I would or would not be willing to sacrifice.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Well then what is wrong with women??

 

[Gale]

i'm shallow, i want my husband to be smart and physically attractive... plus i need someone a bit open minded but not a pushover. a good, but unique sense of humor and loves to smile. he has to like cats, and music and appreciate art. confidence is always good, but cocky is very bad. i want someone who's realistic, but with a good imagination. Someone who'll support my crazy ideas, but protect me when i get too wild. i need someone who's solid as a rock on the outside but with a sweet caring center. other than that, anyone'll do.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Of course I don't think the same thing is wrong with all of them. That's just my way of saying that I'm sad and frustrated because I'd like to not be alone for the rest of my life, but I don't know what to do about it.
(Men and women,) What would you expect your spouse-type partner person to give up in order to have a happy relationship with you?

Certainly nothing important. If it's something central to a man's values or something necessary for his happiness, I'd never want him to give that up for me. Only resentment and bitterness could grow from this. I would just conclude that we weren't meant to be partners. Que sera sera, or whatever it was Doris Day said.

The same is true about what I am willing to sacrifice. For instance, I've dated several men who were allergic to cats and dogs, and a life without animals is not something I can imagine. I just have to wish these men well and say goodbye, and hope we can remain friends.

If I had to choose a single life with my animals over a married life without them, I would choose the single life every time. My animals bring too much meaning to my life; I couldn't give that up for anything.

All the little stuff is up for negotiation. It's just not always easy to see what the little stuff is. I think you just have to make out a list and decide what's up for bargaining and what's not.

But HRW, you are too young to even be thinking about settling down anyway.

 

[Pengwuino]

i'm shallow, i want my husband to be smart and physically attractive... plus i need someone a bit open minded but not a pushover. a good, but unique sense of humor and loves to smile. he has to like cats, and music and appreciate art. confidence is always good, but cocky is very bad. i want someone who's realistic, but with a good imagination. Someone who'll support my crazy ideas, but protect me when i get too wild. i need someone who's solid as a rock on the outside but with a sweet caring center. other than that, anyone'll do.

Have fun being single.

 

[honestrosewater]

Well, this is one area of my life that I've probably neglected. I'm just now starting to think about it. Ideally, I think the kind of relationship that I'm talking about is just two autonomous, complete individuals who enjoy spending time with each other and making each other happy -- and I'd like to just leave it at that. But I'm not sure that that actually works in practice; it seems like there are complications... and they would start to expect each other to follow certain rules and such. Meh, I don't know.

Edit: See, for instance, I didn't even mean to say "two people". Monogamy is one of those things that I haven't found a justification for in theory, but in practice, anything else doesn't seem to work.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I felt lonely living by myself this past summer... so I got a cat, problem solved. Relationships are overrated. (sour grapes?) If anyone wants to be my backup let's do it. honestrosewater if we aren't married by the time we're 40 (you're 23 and I'm 22). I'll marry you.

 

[Gale]

Have fun being single.

(Men and women,) What would you expect your spouse-type partner person to give up in order to have a happy relationship with you?

Free will.

yeah, like you should talk!

sides, at least i have apposable thumbs.

 

[Pengwuino]

yeah, like you should talk!
sides, at least i have apposable thumbs.

At least i can swim!

 

[Gale]

At least i can swim!

so can i...? DER

...stupid penguin...[/size]

 

[Pengwuino]

so can i...? DER
...stupid penguin...[/size]

not for 20 hours straight

 

[Gale]

i'd try, but that's probably all part of your master plan to drown me.

 

[fargoth]

i used to free-up all the time that i could to be with my first love,
i loved being with her, and wanted to spend as much time as i could with her, i expected her to feel the same way... but she wanted more free time with herself or with others.
obviousely we broke-up.

since then i realized the space has to be right for both people, so there's no point in demanding more.
when you give more then you get in a relationship, you should just give less, not expect to get more.
im not saying you should examine every time what he/she did for you lately, that'll end a relationship too, give what feels right for you, never be too dependant.
and i seem to have cured from the need to be with someone lots of time, i don't mind being alone, and i don't mind seeing the one i love once a week, i think id even prefer it right now...
and i have to agree being single is not that bad at all.anyway, regard my words with suspicion, i had only 4 relationships so far, and none of them were for more then 6 months...
im very picky -and- shy, so i have to wait someone would hit on me, and then see if she passes my standards... (smart and funny, and she should think that I am funny too - what?! i am! she can lie about it )
to conclude id say, don't make anyone give up on anything, and you should give up things only if it feels right.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Of course I don't think the same thing is wrong with all of them. That's just my way of saying that I'm sad and frustrated because I'd like to not be alone for the rest of my life, but I don't know what to do about it.
(Men and women,) What would you expect your spouse-type partner person to give up in order to have a happy relationship with you?

Yo are 23... you have lots of time.

You should not have to abstain from anything that makes you who you are (as long as it is not illegal, and I am no hedonist, so group "activities" are an exception as well).

If he likes to hang out with his friends every friday(for example), then that is what he likes to do and that is who he is, accept it.

falling in love should require no sacrifices to change one person or the other into a more ideal person for the sake of either partner. Requesting such from your partner, or they from you is self-centered and emotionally immature.

 

[ComputerGeek]

i'm shallow, i want my husband to be smart and physically attractive... plus i need someone a bit open minded but not a pushover. a good, but unique sense of humor and loves to smile. he has to like cats, and music and appreciate art. confidence is always good, but cocky is very bad. i want someone who's realistic, but with a good imagination. Someone who'll support my crazy ideas, but protect me when i get too wild. i need someone who's solid as a rock on the outside but with a sweet caring center. other than that, anyone'll do.

Yeah... you can pick those up at at the drug store... it is a doll called the "perfect man"

 

[fargoth]

Yo are 23... you have lots of time.
You should not have to abstain from anything that makes you who you are (as long as it is not illegal, and I am no hedonist, so group "activities" are an exception as well).
If he likes to hang out with his friends every friday(for example), then that is what he likes to do and that is who he is, accept it.
falling in love should require no sacrifices to change one person or the other into a more ideal person for the sake of either partner. Requesting such from your partner, or they from you is self-centered and emotionally immature.

well said, i agree with every word.

 

[ComputerGeek]

Well, this is one area of my life that I've probably neglected. I'm just now starting to think about it. Ideally, I think the kind of relationship that I'm talking about is just two autonomous, complete individuals who enjoy spending time with each other and making each other happy -- and I'd like to just leave it at that. But I'm not sure that that actually works in practice; it seems like there are complications... and they would start to expect each other to follow certain rules and such. Meh, I don't know.

Edit: See, for instance, I didn't even mean to say "two people". Monogamy is one of those things that I haven't found a justification for in theory, but in practice, anything else doesn't seem to work.

Any time that you start to share your life with some one else, you have to start making decisions that have both your interests in mind, any time you have to share that, you have arguments.

 

[ComputerGeek]

well said, i agree with every word.

It seems to be uncharacteristically eloquent as well... I must be well hydrated for my mind to work so smoothly :-)

 

[honestrosewater]

If anyone wants to be my backup let's do it. honestrosewater if we aren't married by the time we're 40 (you're 23 and I'm 22). I'll marry you.

Woot! I'm anyone! So Hurkyl and TSA, you have 17 years to answer.

Okay, so here's why I'm asking. I met my sister's boyfriend yesterday, and they were all cute and stuff. Then I read about rocketboy and Brittany today, and how cute are they? And a friend asked me, just in general, if I was looking for a boyfriend. For some reason, I think I got hung up on trying to make clear that I don't think I need one, i.e., that there are some more important things that I don't think I would be willing to change or give up in order to have that kind of relationship, and I think I ended up just sounding cold.

The worser part is that I would actually consider having that kind of relationship with the person who I was trying to explain this to. So, yeah. I suck. I'll certainly try to straighten out any misunderstanding with them (like that I don't actually have a heart of stone or want to spend the rest of my life alone), but I still would like to get some ideas of what others consider reasonable, what they find works or doesn't work, and so on. I think what's bothering me most is that I don't want to miss an opportunity because I wasn't ready.

And thanks, this is sounding quite reasonable so far. Maybe I'm not such a weirdo after all. On second thought, most of you are pretty weird, so... maybe I'm just not alone.

 

[Pengwuino]

Greg is 22?

Gosh HRW, you should shoot for the real hotties in the 19 year old category ;). I know a certain penguin who might be interested!

 

[honestrosewater]

Greg is 22?

That's what it says on his boxers.

Gosh HRW, you should shoot for the real hotties in the 19 year old category ;). I know a certain penguin who might be interested!

Yeah, it's too bad I'm not allowed within 100 yards of any flightless bird. For such a liberal town, the people at the San Diego Zoo are really uptight. Or is that San Francisco?

 

[Pengwuino]

Yeah, it's too bad I'm not allowed within 100 yards of any flightless bird.

I'm never going to find a girl!

 

[ShawnD]

A lot of people here seem to think they should be able to get a partner that is very different from them. After all, opposites attract, right? Wrong. Look at your friends. Are they like you, or are they completely different? Are they out shopping while you're home playing WoW? Do they go to the clubs while you watch movies all by yourself? Are they listening to rap while you're listening to classical? Are they out on dates while you're working on a rash?
I bet they're very similar to you, and that's the way you like it. Most people love themselves more than anybody else in the world. If you want to test this, go create an account at okcupid.com and see how compatible you are with yourself and others after answering 100 questions; I can assure you that you are your own best match.
Rather than looking for somebody completely different than yourself, look for someone just like you. That way, you and your partner shouldn't need to sacrifice anything in order to be happy.

My dream girl? She's a shy nerd who likes to cuddle. She doesn't care for clubs or bars, and she isn't too into sports. Her idea of fun is spending time with people she likes. She isn't fond of shopping just for the sake of spending money. She's very witty, even though she doesn't talk much. She's smart, or at least she seems smart. She's mindful of politics, but she doesn't talk about politics.
Basically it's the female version of myself. There are a lot of girls, in my league, who fit this description. You just don't know it because they're not memorable people, and you generally can't find them in public places. The internet is just littered with them though

 

[Pengwuino]

Hell yah! What is this crap about wanting to find the yin to your yang or whatever the hell the saying is or whatever the hell it means. The opposite of most girls is Timothy McVeigh and I don't see people drooling over the whole improvised explosives market. People love themselves. They want someone who likes the same things they like, does the same things they do, have the same views on life, etc etc. The peopel who go for this "I want someone who challenges me" or "someone who will show me the world" crap are the ones who end up in divorce court or the ones who embarass their families when they bicker in restaurants.

 

[gravenewworld]

The biggest problem with young guys today is the fact that women have been raising us for TOO long.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

It'll come as no great surprise that if you look at couples they often share the same interests, likes/dislikes, political/religous outlook and are often physically of the same sort of build with men being slightly taller. The differences between the sexes are what adds spice IMO, if women were exactly like men there'd be no reason for us to ever do anything except what we wanted. Sometimes us men need a conscience other than our own and vice a versa. I am exactly as Gale discribed ?I wouldn't say it though it might sound cocky

 

[Lacy33]

Perhaps there is really nothing wrong with men...they just have not personally figured out what's really RIGHT and BEAUTIFUL about them yet enough to feel comfortable enough to share like a woman...

 

[Astronuc]

As part of a couple, one gives up a certain amount of autonomy, so finding someone who is moving in the same direction is important - that means sharing goals and values. Throw children into the mix, and it is really important.

For me, I needed a woman with whom I could share my mind. Basically, I needed to find my soul-mate - one who would accept me as I am. And I found her and I married her.

Similarities in likes/dislikes can help prevent conflicts, but complementary differences are also helpful and provide for an interesting relationship.

 

[JasonRox]

i used to free-up all the time that i could to be with my first love,
i loved being with her, and wanted to spend as much time as i could with her, i expected her to feel the same way... but she wanted more free time with herself or with others.
obviousely we broke-up.

since then i realized the space has to be right for both people, so there's no point in demanding more.
when you give more then you get in a relationship, you should just give less, not expect to get more.
im not saying you should examine every time what he/she did for you lately, that'll end a relationship too, give what feels right for you, never be too dependant.
and i seem to have cured from the need to be with someone lots of time, i don't mind being alone, and i don't mind seeing the one i love once a week, i think id even prefer it right now...
and i have to agree being single is not that bad at all.


anyway, regard my words with suspicion, i had only 4 relationships so far, and none of them were for more then 6 months...
im very picky -and- shy, so i have to wait someone would hit on me, and then see if she passes my standards... (smart and funny, and she should think that I am funny too - what?! i am! she can lie about it )



to conclude id say, don't make anyone give up on anything, and you should give up things only if it feels right.

You fell in love with a girl in under 6 months!

That's fast.

 

[Lacy33]

Pardon.
Except for the men who have enjoyed positive experiences in sharing and will continue to be encouragement to brothers and sisters alike.
I wonder if I really understand myself how very important this topic is...
Thank you for starting this thread...

 

[DaveC426913]

But surely you expect them to give up some things -- I didn't see any reason to sugarcoat it. Maybe trade would have been a better word?

There's nothing like pre-conceived ideas and expectations to turn a potential partner off...

 

[Hurkyl]

I expect anyone I'm dating to give up dating other people for that time. I think it's a fair expectation! (And I am perfectly happy to turn off those who would disagree. )

 

[DaveC426913]

I expect anyone I'm dating to give up dating other people for that time. I think it's a fair expectation! (And I am perfectly happy to turn off those who would disagree. )

Welllll yes. That's really more about defining the relationship itself, rather than a requirement that one person has of another person's behaviour, if you see what I mean.

 

[Hurkyl]

That was just the most obvious example. I, for example, cannot stand cigarette smoke. So, I'm also perfectly happy to turn off smokers too.

 

[Moonbear]

Is this thread the women's counter-part to the "Girl Trouble" thread?

Okay, so here's why I'm asking. I met my sister's boyfriend yesterday, and they were all cute and stuff. Then I read about rocketboy and Brittany today, and how cute are they? And a friend asked me, just in general, if I was looking for a boyfriend. For some reason, I think I got hung up on trying to make clear that I don't think I need one, i.e., that there are some more important things that I don't think I would be willing to change or give up in order to have that kind of relationship, and I think I ended up just sounding cold.

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. It seems to feel like there are times when suddenly everyone gets into relationships or hitched all at the same time, and when you're the only one who still hasn't met anyone, and your friends are all out on dates while you're sitting here posting on PF all night, yeah, you start to really crave having some of the joy of relationships that you see all around you. And, yes, reading rocketboy's tales really got me nostalgic about first dates and kisses that seem to never end and all that good stuff. A good relationship also provides some stability in life that's nice to have. When I have an especially hard day at work, I wish there was someone else to help out at home...make the dinner, or even just pick up take-out so I don't have to bother with it, or just be there for hugs and snuggling as I wind down.

On the other hand, there are good things about being single too. I don't have to compromise with anyone when I'm choosing furniture or decorating my home, I just do it all the way I like it. When I want or need to move for a new job, I don't have to ask anyone or worry about limiting locations to where a spouse can move as well. That's actually something my married friends are envious about, that I've had the experience of living in many places and haven't been locked into the limited choices in the area they've settled down with their spouses. The longer you live alone, the more you get set in your ways too, so that much harder to change things when you meet someone who does things a bit differently.

The biggest challenge to me in meeting someone after living alone so long is that I am self-sufficient, but wouldn't mind having someone I could lean on once in a while (and who could lean on me too). The challenge I've had is that most men I've met are intimidated by a woman who is totally self-sufficient. Toss in a PhD into the mix, and other than those losers who think they've struck gold, in the sense of finding a woman to provide for them while they sit on the couch drinking beer and watching sports all day, it seems the rest of the men I meet are too insecure to consider a relationship where they know they aren't needed to be the provider. I know there are men out there who don't have these insecurities, and who would be comfortable in a more equal partnership with a woman, but I don't know where they hide, especially the still-single ones.

On the other hand, I've known plenty of people who want a relationship so badly that they're willing to settle for anyone who comes along. They're the people that end up very unhappy in their relationships, have had multiple marriages, etc. I've seen enough of those to want to avoid that. That's the nice thing about not needing a man in my life; I can take my time finding the one I really want in my life.

 

[fargoth]

You fell in love with a girl in under 6 months!
That's fast.

well, with two out of the four...

the first one i knew for about half a year before we entered a relationship, and after a month into the relationship (i think, it was four years ago... can't remember the chronology that well) i realized i can't get her out of my mind, and got my heart jumping every time i heard here voice when i answered the phone... ahhh, first love

and the second one i knew for a year before i fell inlove, and then we were together for a year on an "on-and-off" basis, never really together, i even tried to see other people after half a year... that's why i don't count it for more then half a year...

i guess i got burned twice, and someone else got burned by me once (i haven't gotten over the second one when we went out)
and with the fourth it ended ok, though i wanted us to keep in touch, and it seems she didnt... its a lot easier when there's no love in the relationship (i mean real fire, not just attraction and friendliness)
less fun though...

 

[honestrosewater]

There's nothing like pre-conceived ideas and expectations to turn a potential partner off...

I didn't mean for it to sound like I had this figured out. I dated, if you could even call it that, from about 12 to 17, my priorities changed, and I haven't given much thought to sharing my life with anyone since. So I'm looking for information.
I was just honestly surprised that russ was surprised to hear the question. I figured it might have been my choice of words. Is it not common to make compromises in most human relationships? It seems like there are lots of rules, especially the unwritten kind, surrounding dating. If there is an aspect of commitment in the relationship, do you not give up anything in making a commitment? What exactly? Does the "you're free to do whatever you want to; I don't expect anything from you" approach actually work in a long-term, presumably rather rare, intimate relationship with someone you care about?

Does no one expect their partner to live in the same house with them? To stay home and raise their children? To spend x amount of time with them? To remain attractive? To stop looking for another partner? Maybe it would help to ask it this way: If you were in a serious relationship with someone, what could they do that would be a rather major, shocking disappointment? For example, if your partner told you one day that they didn't want to have sex with you anymore, you wouldn't bat an eye?

I'm not assuming it's the same for everyone. I'm just looking for some ideas -- things that I should think about -- and, if there are any, some common expectations.

 

[fargoth]

The challenge I've had is that most men I've met are intimidated by a woman who is totally self-sufficient. Toss in a PhD into the mix, and other than those losers who think they've struck gold, in the sense of finding a woman to provide for them while they sit on the couch drinking beer and watching sports all day, it seems the rest of the men I meet are too insecure to consider a relationship where they know they aren't needed to be the provider. I know there are men out there who don't have these insecurities, and who would be comfortable in a more equal partnership with a woman, but I don't know where they hide, especially the still-single ones.

I don't afraid of woman who's smart and has a good job, one of my relationships were with a student for medical degree, she was very smart, and if our relationship was long enough for her to graduate, i wouldn't have minded her making more money then i do.

 

[Moonbear]

There's nothing like pre-conceived ideas and expectations to turn a potential partner off...

Don't we all have certain expectations of what we want in a partner? If it turns them off, then it probably means they weren't the right one. Though, going back to the comment you quoted when you wrote this response, I absolutely do not expect someone to give up anything for me. I'm not interested in a fixer-upper project, I'm interested in a relationship. If someone has characteristics that are deal-breakers, then they are just that, deal-breakers, not something I'm going to try changing about them. There seem to be a lot of women who take on "projects" and want to "fix" the flaws they see in men. This never works. If you can't love someone WITH all their flaws, then you don't love them. Nobody is perfect, but it's a matter of finding one with the flaws you can live with.

As Hurkyl pointed out, there are some things that right off the bat will eliminate someone from consideration. Trying to change those things to make the person acceptable are a bad approach. He gave an example that would be a complete deal-breaker for me too...smoking. If I see a guy lighting up a cigarrette, I'm not even going to consider him. I'm not going to pursue him and then try to get him to quit...it might or might not work out, but I'm not going to take the chance he'll quit for a while and go back to smoking because I absolutely cannot live with that. Likewise, if a guy spends all weekend-long glued to a TV watching sports, that's too far removed from my interests to make it worthwhile pursuing him; I'm not going to try to make him give up something he enjoys. On the other hand, if a guy likes sports, but isn't a fanatic about it, and is happy to just watch one game a week played by his favorite team, or can read the scores in the paper and go to a game with his friends once in a while, that's something I can live with...the time he'd spend enjoying his interest is time I could spend enjoying some other interest of mine that he doesn't share...I would want a relationship where it's okay for us each to pursue our own independent interests so we aren't permanently joined at the hip. To me, it would be smothering to have to spend every single moment together. A little time to pursue independent interests is a good thing in my view, but, of course, you still need to have enough common interests to enjoy being together as well.

 

[honestrosewater]

I don't have to compromise with anyone... I just do it all the way I like it... I don't have to ask anyone... haven't been locked into the limited choices... totally self-sufficient... equal partnership... That's the nice thing about not needing a man in my life; I can take my time finding the one I really want in my life.

Mhm, yep, yep, yep.

Does anyone else feel compelled to tell a (potential) partner "I don't need you"? I do, and I wonder whether it's a woman thing or not. (Edit: meaning, or am I perhaps extra sensitive to what a man might expect of me because I'm a woman. Do other people think about this stuff?) Is it clear to everyone else the difference between "I don't need you" and "I don't want you"?

 

[Moonbear]

I was just honestly surprised that russ was surprised to hear the question. I figured it might have been my choice of words. Is it not common to make compromises in most human relationships? It seems like there are lots of rules, especially the unwritten kind, surrounding dating. If there is an aspect of commitment in the relationship, do you not give up anything in making a commitment? What exactly? Does the "you're free to do whatever you want to; I don't expect anything from you" approach actually work in a long-term, presumably rather rare, intimate relationship with someone you care about?

I think I might have just answered your questions without knowing you asked them (you posted while I was typing another lengthy reply). But, I'm not sure if your word choice is confusing, or if you really are seeing things in the way it sounds like you've written it. I think people in general (not necessarily you...I don't know) confuse compromise with expecting someone to give up things. Yes, when two people with different habits join together and live together (regardless of marital status actually), mutual compromises need to be made. If I like to keep the sugar bowl on the counter next to the coffee maker and he prefers it left in the middle of the kitchen table, one of us is going to have to give in, or we'll need to get two sugar bowls, or we just shove the darn thing up in a cabinet so neither of us can remember where we put it while groping around to make that first morning cup of coffee. I'm willing to agree to leave the sugar bowl on the kitchen table, with the caveat that it's his job to sweep up the spilled sugar if I knock it over while doing paperwork at the table. After I knock over the sugar bowl for the 30th time while sitting at the kitchen table paying the bills, he's probably going to agree to move the sugar bowl back to the counter, or he's going to glue a heavy weight to the bottom of it, which would leave me laughing too hard to be offended. That's compromise. On the other hand, if I walk into a relationship with my list of demands of things I expect him to change, and we have to sit down and negotiate it like a contract or corporate merger, there aren't many quicker ways to end a relationship.

 

[Moonbear]

Mhm, yep, yep, yep.

Does anyone else feel compelled to tell a (potential) partner "I don't need you"? I do, and I wonder whether it's a woman thing or not. (Edit: meaning, or am I perhaps extra sensitive to what a man might expect of me because I'm a woman. Do other people think about this stuff?) Is it clear to everyone else the difference between "I don't need you" and "I don't want you"?

Oh, geez, no, I'd never tell a potential partner I don't need him. Male egos are far too fragile to handle being told something like that! Any guy who meets me will figure out pretty quickly how independent I am, so I shouldn't have to tell him that. But, no, I don't think the difference between needing and wanting comes across very well to people, and to tell someone you don't need them sounds like you're rejecting them. And, while I don't need a man in the generic sense, I highly suspect that once I find the one I really want, he will bring things to my life that I never really knew I needed, but can't imagine living without from that point onward. It's not worth the effort of trying to explain the distinction as long as you know it yourself; nobody wants to be told they aren't needed, even if they know you can function just fine on your own.

 

[Evo]

i'm shallow, i want my husband to be smart and physically attractive... plus i need someone a bit open minded but not a pushover. a good, but unique sense of humor and loves to smile. he has to like cats, and music and appreciate art. confidence is always good, but cocky is very bad. i want someone who's realistic, but with a good imagination. Someone who'll support my crazy ideas, but protect me when i get too wild. i need someone who's solid as a rock on the outside but with a sweet caring center. other than that, anyone'll do.

Wow, we want the same guy.

 

[Astronuc]

Oh, geez, no, I'd never tell a potential partner I don't need him. Male egos are far too fragile to handle being told something like that! Any guy who meets me will figure out pretty quickly how independent I am, so I shouldn't have to tell him that. But, no, I don't think the difference between needing and wanting comes across very well to people, and to tell someone you don't need them sounds like you're rejecting them. And, while I don't need a man in the generic sense, I highly suspect that once I find the one I really want, he will bring things to my life that I never really knew I needed, but can't imagine living without from that point onward. It's not worth the effort of trying to explain the distinction as long as you know it yourself; nobody wants to be told they aren't needed, even if they know you can function just fine on your own.

I agree with Moonbear.

In the first part, I would never tell my wife that I don't need her. However, I am coming from the other side of the dividing line - I am married and in my 24th year as a husband. As time goes by, one builds a history with one's partner and one becomes psychologically dependent, and in that sense it is a 'need'. On the other hand, I could 'exist' without my wife, but at this point in my life it would be cataclysmic change. For my own sanity and peace-of-mind, I need my wife (and kids) to be healthy and secure. When I married, I took on the responsibility for the well-being of my wife, to some extent, and we have two children, so that we both share that responsibility.

As for men's egos, I would generalize to people, both male and female. People have feelings, and people can be hurt. I try my best not to hurt anyone.


My wife and I are interdependent - we rely on each other for support. We share the best of times, and we have shared some bad times, e.g. conflicts between ourselves, and illnesses and deaths ( ) of friends, family members, and pets.

I didn't get married because I needed to get married. I simply wanted to have a companion/life-partner (preferably the right one) with whom I could share my life.

 

[honestrosewater]

Oh, geez, no, I'd never tell a potential partner I don't need him. Male egos are far too fragile to handle being told something like that! Any guy who meets me will figure out pretty quickly how independent I am, so I shouldn't have to tell him that. But, no, I don't think the difference between needing and wanting comes across very well to people, and to tell someone you don't need them sounds like you're rejecting them. And, while I don't need a man in the generic sense, I highly suspect that once I find the one I really want, he will bring things to my life that I never really knew I needed, but can't imagine living without from that point onward. It's not worth the effort of trying to explain the distinction as long as you know it yourself; nobody wants to be told they aren't needed, even if they know you can function just fine on your own.

Interesting. I'm all for being tactful and considerate, but I think that distinction is something I'd want him to understand. Nevermind the woman thing; I don't think that's the real motivation. (In fact, the main thing I don't like about dating is that it seems to make people suddenly no longer people but sexes. I don't even notice myself doing it sometimes. --Not that I'm dating anyone. Bah, whatever.) This distinction holds in other friendships too. It has to do with the bases and goals of friendships and such. Well, need and want don't capture the distinctions, but anyway... I guess I should work on the deliverance.

Anywho, I was really hoping for an easy answer, but I think it's something I'm just going to have to keep working on. What makes a relationship good is primarily an ethical question for me anyway. So, hm, maybe I will be alone for the rest of my life. Or maybe I should have made the title "What is wrong with me?!?"

Thanks, you guys have given me some good things to think about.