Question about neutron cross sections

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on thermal neutron scattering cross sections, specifically at an energy of 0.025 eV, for various isotopes. Participants explore discrepancies in published values, the nature of scattering events, and the interpretation of data from different sources.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks thermal neutron scattering cross sections for individual isotopes and questions whether the scattering cross section typically includes both elastic and inelastic collisions.
  • Another participant suggests looking at scattering amplitudes and provides a link to a resource that may contain relevant data.
  • Concerns are raised about discrepancies in the reported thermal scattering cross section for hydrogen, with values ranging from 38b to 82.02b, leading to confusion about the accuracy of these measurements.
  • There is a discussion about the neutron energy associated with scattering cross sections, with a belief that values should generally decrease at higher energies unless resonances are present.
  • One participant questions whether the scattering cross section quoted in literature refers to elastic scattering only or includes inelastic events, suggesting that inelastic scattering may not occur at low thermal energies.
  • Another participant clarifies the difference between inelastic scattering and incoherent scattering, emphasizing the need for careful terminology.
  • Participants note differences in cross section values from various sources, including a specific mention of a discrepancy between 20.44b and 30.14b for hydrogen at 0.0253 eV, attributing this to the effects of Doppler broadening and the way data is presented in ENDF files.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the interpretation of scattering cross sections and the discrepancies in reported values. There is no consensus on whether the quoted scattering cross sections include both elastic and inelastic events, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the available data, including potential dependencies on definitions and the impact of temperature on cross section values. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of how scattering cross sections are reported in different contexts.

BobGom
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I am looking for thermal neutron scattering cross sections (0.025eV) for individual isotopes, having found non isotopic data for most elements in a textbook. The most comprehensive cross section database appears to be http://www.nndc.bnl.gov/sigma/index.jsp?as=238&lib=endfb7.0&nsub=10". Unfortunately I am unable to identify which plots if any could give me the scattering cross section.

Presumably all (n,elastic) collisions must be scattering but n(inelastic) could either be a scattering or absorption event. When the scattering cross section is usually quoted (as typically in textbooks) does that usually include elastic and inelastic collisions? Am I also correct in thinking that neutron scattering data will generally be poor for isotopes with very high absorption cross sections such as boron-10?
 
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Thanks.

I'm assuming the desired quantity from the site above is the total bound scattering cross section. The value for hydrogen quoted above is 82.02b and appears to be taken from a 1992 publication. However two textbooks (one from 1977, one from 1994) both put the thermal value for hydrogen at 38b. It seems unlikely there would be such a large discrepancy between values of the same parameter.

The link above does not give the neutron energy for the scattering cross sections but I believe that unless there any resonances, it should be lower at higher energies. Indeed the 'epithermal scattering cross section' of hydrogen is given at 20b.
 
BobGom said:
Thanks.

I'm assuming the desired quantity from the site above is the total bound scattering cross section. The value for hydrogen quoted above is 82.02b and appears to be taken from a 1992 publication. However two textbooks (one from 1977, one from 1994) both put the thermal value for hydrogen at 38b. It seems unlikely there would be such a large discrepancy between values of the same parameter.

The link above does not give the neutron energy for the scattering cross sections but I believe that unless there any resonances, it should be lower at higher energies. Indeed the 'epithermal scattering cross section' of hydrogen is given at 20b.

Normally, these values are given for 2200 m/s ("thermal" neutrons).

You're right. On the NNDC plot, you find rather 30.14 barn at 0.0253 eV.
I have to say that I'm puzzled too as to why there is this difference.
 
Ah ok. Do you know whether or not when the scattering cross section is normally quoted, is that the elastic scattering cross section or does it include inelastic scattering events aswell?
 
BobGom said:
Ah ok. Do you know whether or not when the scattering cross section is normally quoted, is that the elastic scattering cross section or does it include inelastic scattering events aswell?

At low (thermal) energies, I don't think there are inelastic scattering events.

BTW, don't confuse "inelastic" scattering and "incoherent" scattering.
 
vanesch said:
Normally, these values are given for 2200 m/s ("thermal" neutrons).

You're right. On the NNDC plot, you find rather 30.14 barn at 0.0253 eV.
I have to say that I'm puzzled too as to why there is this difference.

Also curiously looking at the http://www.nndc.bnl.gov/sigma/getInterpreted.jsp?evalid=4208&mf=3&mt=2" for hydrogen, the data point for 0.0253eV has a cross section of 20.44b with all the low energy cross sections being in this area. However it appears to be 30.14b in the plot. There is an explanation on the site

why the cross sections from the "interpreted" table are different from those in the plot. Cross section data is kept in 2 sections of the ENDF file, one contains resonance parameters and the other non-resonant cross section at a temperature of 0 Kelvins. The plot shows reconstructed cross sections, that is combining the results of those 2 sections, and then doppler-broadened, at a temperature of 300 Kelvins. The rise of the cross section at the lower energy end is due to the doppler broadening. This rise disappears as one decreases the temperature.
Hope this helps, if not, let me know.

Presumably tabulated values are usually quoted without doppler broadening?
 
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