Estimator for variance when sampling without replacement

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding an unbiased estimator for the population variance when sampling without replacement from a finite population. The original poster seeks a formula that applies specifically to this context, contrasting it with known cases when sampling with replacement.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between sampling methods and variance estimation, questioning the applicability of the hypergeometric distribution and its relevance to the problem at hand. There is also a discussion about the definitions of population mean versus sample mean in the context of variance estimation.

Discussion Status

The conversation includes attempts to clarify the definitions involved and the nature of the estimator being sought. Some participants provide insights into the formulas for variance but do not reach a consensus on the specific unbiased estimator for the scenario described.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on the distinction between sampling with and without replacement, as well as the implications this has for the variance estimator. Participants note the need for a function of the samples that meets the criteria for an unbiased estimator.

logarithmic
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Does anyone know the formula for an unbiased estimator of the population variance \frac{1}{n}\sum_{i=1}^{n}(x_i - \bar{x})^2 when taking r samples without replacement from a finite population \{x_1, \dots, x_n\} whose mean is \bar{x}?

A google search doesn't find anything useful other than the the special cases of when r = n the estimator is of course \frac{r-1}{r}s^2, where s^2 = \frac{1}{r-1}\sum_{i=1}^{r}(x_i - \bar{x})^2 which is of course the unbiased estimator when taking r samples with replacement.

I know that a (relatively) simple formula exists, I've seen it somewhere before, just don't remember where.
 
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MaxManus said:

Not that one. That's the distribution for the number of black balls drawn without replacement from a box with black and white balls. It isn't an estimator for the population variance.
 
logarithmic said:
Not that one. That's the distribution for the number of black balls drawn without replacement from a box with black and white balls. It isn't an estimator for the population variance.

But isn't that the distribution you described? And isn't the variance formula on the right table an estimator?
 
MaxManus said:
But isn't that the distribution you described? And isn't the variance formula on the right table an estimator?
Not really. I'm looking for an estimator, that is a function of the samples: f(X_1, ..., X_r) which itself is a random variable, such that E(f(X_1, ..., X_r)) = true population variance.

That variance formula isn't a random variable (i.e. it can't be an estimator), it's the variance of a certain random variable that counts. But a hypergeometric random variable isn't appropriate for measuring the count of the samples since, the number of samples is assumed to be fixed as r.
 
logarithmic said:
Does anyone know the formula for an unbiased estimator of the population variance \frac{1}{n}\sum_{i=1}^{n}(x_i - \bar{x})^2 when taking r samples without replacement from a finite population \{x_1, \dots, x_n\} whose mean is \bar{x}?

Hi logarithmic. With that definition of \bar{x} (which is actually the definition of the population mean) then the unbiased estimator of the population variance is simply,

\frac{1}{r}\sum_{i=1}^{r}(x_i - \bar{x})^2

However I think you really meant for \bar{x} to denote the sample mean of the "r" chosen samples rather than the population mean. In which case unbiased estimator is,

\left(\frac{n-1}{n}\right) \, \frac {1}{r-1}\sum_{i=1}^{r}(x_i - \bar{x})^2
 

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