1st order diff equ vs integral tables

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between solutions to a first-order differential equation and integral tables, specifically focusing on the forms of solutions and the role of constants of integration. Participants explore the mathematical equivalence and differences between these two approaches, as well as the methods used to derive integral tables.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a first-order differential equation and its solution, noting a discrepancy with the integral table solution due to the presence of a constant.
  • Another participant argues that constants of integration can reconcile the differences between the two forms, suggesting that they can absorb variations in expressions.
  • A later reply reiterates the idea that integration constants can be reformulated to demonstrate equivalence between different expressions, but expresses difficulty in eliminating a constant from the differential equation solution to match the integral table.
  • Further contributions clarify that logarithmic identities can be used to manipulate the expressions, suggesting that the integration constant can be treated similarly to other constants in the equations.
  • Participants discuss the methods used to derive integral tables, questioning whether differential equation techniques are employed in solving complex integrals.
  • One participant mentions various techniques for solving indefinite integrals, including substitutions and integration by parts, while noting that some definite integrals may require complex analysis methods.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the differential equation solutions and integral tables, with some believing they can be reconciled through constants of integration, while others remain uncertain about achieving a match. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the equivalence of the two approaches.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of constants of integration in their arguments, indicating that the discussion is dependent on how these constants are defined and manipulated. There are also references to specific mathematical techniques that may not be universally applicable to all integrals.

rppearso
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I am at a dilemma trying to solve a simple first order differential equation of the form;

dT/dt + C1*T = C2 the solution to this differential equation is T = C2/C1 + exp(-C1t)

Which is equivalent to t= 1/-C1*ln(T+C2/C1)

The integral table states that the solution to an integral of the form:

dT/(aT+b) = 1/a*ln(a*T+b)

Both of these equations assume no constants of integration,

There is an extra C1 in the differential equation solution that is not in the integral.
 
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When you take into account the constants of integration, the two formulas would be the same because constants of integration can absorb the differences.

For example the two expression below are exactly the same:

k1*exp(x)
exp(x+k2)

where k1, k2 are integration constants. The connection is k1=exp(k2). Any function of an integration constant is also an integration constant. You can reformulate integration constants that way to check if two seemingly different expressions are the same.
 
smallphi said:
When you take into account the constants of integration, the two formulas would be the same because constants of integration can absorb the differences.

For example the two expression below are exactly the same:

k1*exp(x)
exp(x+k2)

where k1, k2 are integration constants. The connection is k1=exp(k2). Any function of an integration constant is also an integration constant. You can reformulate integration constants that way to check if two seemingly different expressions are the same.

The integration constant for the differential equation would be in front of the exponential and when you rearanged the equation you would end up with;

ln((-C1*T+C2)/C*C1) and with the integral table you end up with ln(-C1*T+C2) + C even with integration constants taken into account I can't seem to properly shake the C1 out of my equation to match the integral tables. The differential equation and integral table should match.

Another question, do they use differential equation methods to solve complex integrals in the integral tables like use of integrating factors?
 
ln((-C1*T+C2)/C*C1) = ln(-C1*T+C2) +ln(C1/C)

Now ln(C1/C) is a function of integration constant that doesn't contain the variable, T in this case, so it can be considered integration constant too. That is confirmed by the fact that the value of ln(C1/C) doesn't depend on T and is arbitrary due to the presence of C so it behaves exactly like integration constant. Denote it by ln(C1/C) -> C and you get the second expression.
 
Last edited:
smallphi said:
ln((-C1*T+C2)/C*C1) = ln(-C1*T+C2) +ln(C1/C)

Now ln(C1/C) is a function of integration constant that doesn't contain the variable, T in this case, so it can be considered integration constant too. That is confirmed by the fact that the value of ln(C1/C) doesn't depend on T and is arbitrary due to the presence of C so it behaves exactly like integration constant. Denote it by ln(C1/C) -> C and you get the second expression.

I can't believe I forgot my log rules, actually wouldent it be ln(-C1*T+C2) - ln(C1*C). Either way it answers my question.

Thank you,
Ron

BTW are the integral tables created through differential equation methods of solving. Some of thoes complex integrals are not straight forward to solve using integration rules.
 
Last edited:
Indefinite integrals are solved by substitutions, change of integration variables, integration by parts etc. the usual tricks in a calculus book. The substitutions/change of variables are not always obvious.

Some definite integrals on the real axis are solved by integration over contours in the complex plane.
 

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