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220v European appliances on USA 2x 110v lines

  1. Jul 6, 2015 #1
    Hello - this is a continuation of a previous thread https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/using-european-230v-50hz-appliances-in-the-us.620097/
    Question 1:
    The final recommendation was to run 3 wires plus ground to the new 220v outlet but the appliance doesn't have anywhere for 3 wires + ground. The appliance is wired for a single hot (phase) wire, a neutral and a ground.
    In creating the 220v with the 2x 110v legs we would be applying 110v to Line (phase) and 110v to Neutral and then ground to ground. There would not be anywhere on the appliance to connect the actual neutral coming from the panel - right?

    Question 2:
    Assuming I did not misunderstand the recommendation to create the 220v in the above manner I then wonder the wisdom of applying 110v to the neutral of the appliance. Is there any risk the neutral and ground are bonded within the appliance? Or any other reason to be concerned about heating up the neutral?
    Thanks in advance,
    Geoff
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 6, 2015 #2

    psparky

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    Wiring two 110 legs that are 180 degrees out of phase is simply 220 volts that is actually called "line to line" This would need to be run off a 2 pole breaker.

    If you wire two 110 legs that are on the same phase, you will simply have 110 volts with twice the available amperage which will not help you and is against code.

    You will likely not need a neutral in this situation. Line to line and ground should do the trick.

    But to test it, put an ohmeter on the ground and neutral on your device. Infinite ohms and you are good.
    Very small amount of ohms and they are tied together in your device....wont work.
     
  4. Jul 6, 2015 #3
    OK thanks. Yes I understand the 180 degree phase situation. Thank you for clarifying though. My post was more based on the prior recommendation to somehow run a neutral as well, which I agree with you can't be done in a 'line-to-line' 220v setup. Not into a single phase 220v appliance anyway ...
    Metering the resistance from neutral to ground is a good idea. It's all out on an island and will have to wait until I'm back out there.
    Other than the possibility of a neutral to ground short circuit there isn't any other electrical concern with heating up the neutral is there? With regard to circuitry or motors involved? We have the following appliances involved:
    Fridge/Freezer
    Water heater - no concern I know as totally inductive load
    Water Maker - high pressure pumps
    Jacuzzi
    Ice Maker
    Washing machine/dryer.

    In short - some motors, some heaters, some circuit boards (though they are all probably rectified to DC anyway).
    Then there's the 50Hz / 60Hz issue. The appliances are all 50Hz .... I'm not too worried about that and will let the cards fall where they may. Perhaps premature failure - perhaps not. Seems to be anyone's guess what will happen.
    Thanks again,
    Geoff
     
  5. Jul 6, 2015 #4

    psparky

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    It's hard to give advice on this subject because we don't know exactly what you have.

    It's possible you will need a neutral for a possible 110 volt circuit involved. Like usually the clock and controls on the oven for example.

    At first I thought you were talking about a single load, but now it looks like you have several different circuit breakers involved.

    Sounds like you need at Least a certified electrician on site at bare minimum. You can't just guess how to wire this stuff and hit the breaker and see what happens. It all needs to be carefully thought out, designed and installed by a competent electrician. Perhaps you are quite the electrical guy, if so you could probably figure it out.....If not you could be asking for trouble.
     
  6. Jul 6, 2015 #5

    psparky

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    The 50 to 60 hertz is actually a big deal.

    Anytime u change the current in a motor, good things do NOT happen.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  7. Jul 6, 2015 #6

    psparky

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    Perhaps a transformer before your main panel could solve all your problems???? Use a voltage based on 5/6 or 6/5 the intended voltage depending on your application. This way you can keep the current at least close to its original specs.
     
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