7.2 cubic metres of Nitrogen compressed, will last 30mins-1hr of usage

In summary,This is a long and complex conversation. JL and his brother are new to nitrogen gas, and are seeking advice on how to best use it. They need to figure out what pressure to use to fill 16 50L bags with nitrogen, and JL recommends consulting a gas calculator. If the desired pressure is 4.1 bar, it would take 1 m3 of nitrogen to fill 16 tires to that pressure.
  • #1
JL3110
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TL;DR Summary
So I am currently looking to work on some projects with my brother.

I have some questions regarding the usage of nitrogen.
We are looking at a 7.2 cubic metre cylinder of Nitrogen Pure compressed and wondering at what rate of pressure will equal roughly 30-60mins of use?

Nitrogen Bottle here: https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/gases/nitrogen-gas/nitrogen--industrial-grade--compressed

We are still relatively new to this hence why we are seeking all advice, and knowledge before continuing.
So I am currently looking to work on some projects with my brother.

I have some questions regarding the usage of nitrogen.
We are looking at a 7.2 cubic metre cylinder of Nitrogen Pure compressed and wondering at what rate of pressure will equal roughly 30-60mins of use?

Nitrogen Bottle here: https://www.boc.com.au/shop/en/au/gases/nitrogen-gas/nitrogen--industrial-grade--compressed We are still relatively new to this hence why we are seeking all advice, and knowledge before continuing.
 
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  • #2
Hello JL, & bro, :welcome: !

7.2 cubic meters is huge ! Size G apparently.

You will need to give https://www.linde-gas.nl/en/news_and_media/tool/gas_calculator/ if you want to calculate a time: the flowrate at delivery pressure, for example
 
  • #3
Great well if the size is huge it should definitely do the job.

What information do you need?

I am not sure what flowrate I will use and what pressure yet, that's what I am trying to determine.
Forgive me, we are still learning to wrap our heads around this.

Kind regards,

BvU said:
Hello JL, & bro, :welcome: !

7.2 cubic meters is huge ! Size G apparently.

You will need to give https://www.linde-gas.nl/en/news_and_media/tool/gas_calculator/ if you want to calculate a time: the flowrate at delivery pressure, for example
 
  • #4
JL3110 said:
I am not sure what flowrate I will use and what pressure yet, that's what I am trying to determine.
Makes a difference if you use 0.1 kg/s or 10 :smile: !

So: how do you know you need a 7.2 m3 'bottle' ?

In the mean time, study the ideal gas law ##pV = NRT ## for estimates.
 
  • #5
im not sure if 7.2m cubic is the right amount, it was just the largest and we figured it should be enough for our projects. We would rather have some left over than have none.
We are filling small tyres, like miniature go carts tyres.
 
  • #6
Way too big. Estimate the volume of a tyre and the desired pressure.

Remember, you get the stuff delivered 200 Bara in e.g an 1.8 m3 bottle .

Say the desired tyre pressure is 4 Bara and a tyre is 0.004 m3. You can fill some $$1.8/0.004 \times 200/4 = 20000 $$ tyres
 
  • #7
By the way, a potential supplier should be happy to help you with this !
 
  • #8
@BvU are you sure you're giving good advice? The volume of these gas cylinders is given as the volume of gas at STP. Since it is compressed to ~150 atmospheres, the volume of the actual cylinder is much smaller. The 7.2 m^3 N2 bottle is a standard gas cylinder, about 6-8 inches in diameter and about 4 feet tall. This size cylinder is used all the time.
 
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  • #9
What would you recommend?
Would this suffice or would 2 be required possibly?

phyzguy said:
@BvU are you sure you're giving good advice? The volume of these gas cylinders is given as the volume of gas at STP. Since it is compressed to ~150 atmospheres, the volume of the actual cylinder is much smaller. The 7.2 m^3 N2 bottle is a standard gas cylinder, about 6-8 inches in diameter and about 4 feet tall. This size cylinder is used all the time.
 
  • #10
JL3110 said:
What would you recommend?
Would this suffice or would 2 be required possibly?
You haven't given enough information to decide. Simply giving the pressure isn't enough. The gas cylinder can supply high pressure indefinitely if you aren't using any volume. What are you attempting to do? Fill tires? If so, what is the volume of the tire, how many tires do you want to fill, and what pressure do you want to fill them to?
 
  • #11
My apologies this is what I am looking to ascertain.

the volume capacity of the bag inside the tyres are 50L.
Roughly got about 16 to fill.
The desired pressure at this stage isn't clear, we will relatively go by test and trial but low pressure is what we are aiming for.

My question i guess was if i had that 7.2 cubic metre cylinder, and i was to use a low rate of pressure release from the cylinder to fill the 16 50L bags how long would it take? Would I have enough nitrogen?

phyzguy said:
You haven't given enough information to decide. Simply giving the pressure isn't enough. The gas cylinder can supply high pressure indefinitely if you aren't using any volume. What are you attempting to do? Fill tires? If so, what is the volume of the tire, how many tires do you want to fill, and what pressure do you want to fill them to?
 
  • #12
Well, a liter is 1000 cm^3, and 1 m^3 = (100 cm)^3 = 10^6 cm^3, so 1 m^3 is 1000 liters. So say you want to fill the tires to 4 atmospheres, which is approximately 60 psi or about 4.1 bar. That would use 16*50*4 = 3200 L. So you could do this twice with your 7.2 m^3 cylinder. If you use less pressure, you could do it more times, more pressure would mean less times. Does this make sense?
 
  • #13
50 liters sounds like a lot of volume for a go kart tyre. What is your basis for this number i.e. Is this maybe the amount of gas @ atmospheric pressure or is it from an actual dimensional volume of the inner tube in the tyre?
 
  • #14
phyzguy said:
So say you want to fill the tires to 4 atmospheres, which is approximately 60 psi or about 4.1 bar.

The 4 bar pressure was an example pressure in post #6 by @BvU , it is not a stated requirement by OP.
 
  • #15
phyzguy said:
@BvU The volume of these gas cylinders is given as the volume of gas at STP.
That 's misleading to me -- sorry if I missed that.

Oh well, that's what you get when you look at things as a physicist...

@JL3110 : what's the argument to reject a solution with a simple small and cheap air compressor like my bike repairman uses ?
And: exactly how big are these 'miniature go cart tyres' ? Or is the 50 L at STP too ?
 
  • #16
Nitrogen is used in aircraft tires for a great many reasons, no moisture and large molecules are two. Those big bottles are used with a regulator so the output pressure can be set. At 80 psi an eight wheel aircraft could have all its tires filled one after another without a tremendous change in bottle temperature. Small valve stem diameters limit airflow.
An anecdote about using high pressure nitrogen without the regulator.

A tire not on an aircraft needed to be filled for analysis but the regulator had been sent out for repairs. The mechanic was rather inexperienced and figured on just cracking the valve slightly so just 80 psi would come out of the 4000 psi bottle, saving waiting time.
When the bolts holding the rim together gave out, the half not tied down went through the hanger wall and damaged an aircraft parked outside.

I have not seen mention of a pressure regulator and if the product is to be used in real life, I worry.
 
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  • #17
Torbert said:
I have not seen mention of a pressure regulator and if the product is to be used in real life, I worry.

Yes, @JL3110 , I want to emphasize this point. You absolutely need a regulator for what you are trying to do.
 
  • #18
If you are going to fill lots of tires, you would be better off using a liquid nitrogen dewer. Those have gas phase valves that allow you to take warm gas out. Since nitrogen goes from liquid to vapor at an expansion ratio of a little over 600:1, you can pack a lot of gas into an LM2 dewer.

https://www.westairgases.com/blog/to-know-your-dewar-is-to-love-your-dewar
 

1. How is the amount of Nitrogen calculated in this measurement?

The amount of Nitrogen in 7.2 cubic metres is determined by the volume of the container and the pressure at which the gas is compressed. This measurement is commonly used to determine the amount of gas needed for various applications, such as filling tires or powering machinery.

2. How long will 7.2 cubic metres of Nitrogen last?

The duration of usage for 7.2 cubic metres of Nitrogen depends on the rate of consumption. Generally, it can last anywhere from 30 minutes to 1 hour, but this can vary based on the specific application and usage rate.

3. Is 7.2 cubic metres of Nitrogen enough for all applications?

The amount of Nitrogen needed for a specific application can vary greatly. 7.2 cubic metres may be enough for smaller or shorter tasks, but larger or longer tasks may require more Nitrogen. It is important to accurately calculate the required amount for each individual application.

4. What are the potential dangers of using compressed Nitrogen?

Compressed Nitrogen can be dangerous if not handled properly. It is important to follow safety precautions and guidelines when using it, such as wearing protective gear and ensuring proper ventilation. It is also important to be aware of the potential hazards, such as fire and explosion risks.

5. Can the duration of usage be extended for 7.2 cubic metres of Nitrogen?

The duration of usage for 7.2 cubic metres of Nitrogen can be extended by using it at a slower rate or by using a larger container with a higher volume of gas. However, it is important to note that the amount of gas and duration of usage are ultimately dependent on the specific application and usage rate.

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