8-year-olds placed in Cage Fights

[flyingpig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7fCtYTUAf8

Skip to 0:51, look at the tone of that kid, he obviously LOVES violence thanks to his moronic father.

It's fun

IN other words, "I like to beat people up and people weaker than me!"

 

[estro]

How is this legal?

 

[bp_psy]

IN other words, "I like to beat people up and people weaker than me!"

You were able to get that much insight about the kid just from him saying "fun"?
Amazing.

So if one kid likes playing chess he must enjoy dominating stupid people.

 

[phoenix:\\]

No law to make it illegal.

Wrestling, peewee football, peewee lacrosse, and peewee boxing (more dangerous than that) are all legal, so I don't know what the fuss is about. You think that is disgusting just compare boxing and UFC statistics.

 

[Jack21222]

How is this legal?

Why should martial arts be illegal?

 

[Proton Soup]

meh. just a couple of kids grappling. you guys didn't do this when you were kids?

 

[estro]

Gathering crowd and make kids fight each other...
I would never allow this to happen in my country.

Jack, you call cage fighting martial arts?

 

[flyingpig]

Why should martial arts be illegal?

because martial arts isn't just about violence, it's an art. This is just pure violence.

 

[KingNothing]

I am 100% in support of this. It's called mixed martial arts. No different than participating in any other sport.

because martial arts isn't just about violence, it's an art. This is just pure violence.

Ha! How would you know? These kids have probably been working hard and practicing. Just because you don't have the trained eye to see it as an art, doesn't mean it isn't.

 

[phoenix:\\]

Those kids aren't just wailing on one another, you can clearly see wrestling, and a mixture of martial art-based styles being incorporated into their fighting. Also they aren't being "made" to fight, rather they decided to do that on their own, similar to a kid knocking another kids skull out of his head (exaggeration) in boxing and is noted as being more dangerous than what those kids are doing.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I am 100% in support of this. It's called mixed martial arts. No different than participating in any other sport.

At what age do boxers start serious training?

Ha! How would you know? These kids have probably been working hard and practicing. Just because you don't have the trained eye to see it as an art, doesn't mean it isn't.

Maybe, does anyone have back drop on the training? Are they taking traditional karate or judo? Martial arts must contain mental and spiritual development.

fyi, looking at the video it does appear it is just wresting/grappling. But once kicks and punches are involved I think it draws the line, especially if it's without proper padding and money is involved.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Also they aren't being "made" to fight, rather they decided to do that on their own

I think you are naive if you think that dad didn't have a major influence. Indoctrination is prevalent in ages younger than 14 when full consciousness is not yet developed.

 

[phoenix:\\]

Influence is different from being made.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Influence is different from being made.

You're right, he isn't a slave, but at that age in the right environment there is little difference. Do you support those very young girls in beauty pageants?

 

[flyingpig]

fyi, looking at the video it does appear it is just wresting/grappling. But once kicks and punches are involved I think it draws the line, especially if it's without proper padding and money is involved.

Go to 0:28 to 0:30

That kid just kick the other kid's face while they were on ground.

 

[OmCheeto]

If they gave them guns and/or knives, I'd pay to watch.

I'm a big fan of Darwinianism.

Tommy; "Hi Joey. These blokes talked us into gettin' in here and killin' each other. I'd kind of like to grow up to be a teacher or somethin'. What'ya say we point the guns at the audience, and start shootin'"

Joey; "Sounds good to me."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDTZ7iX4vTQ

All the other kids with the pumped up kicks
You'd better run, better run, faster than my bullet

meh. just a couple of kids grappling. you guys didn't do this when you were kids?

Sure. Me and my 4 brothers beat the crap out of each other when we were that age.

Then we grew up.

hmmm... I even liked watching boxing for a while, until I watched the Mancini vs KIM fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThQFPJpVtK8

You're right, he isn't a slave, but at that age in the right environment there is little difference. Do you support those very young girls in beauty pageants?

That was my second thought, boss. Thank you.

 

[phoenix:\\]

You're right, he isn't a slave, but at that age in the right environment there is little difference. Do you support those very young girls in beauty pageants?

Everyone is influenced by people at young ages. But a beauty pageant for kids winning a contest is to be demonized and a spelling bee isn't?

 

[D H]

At what age do boxers start serious training?

Not that I condone this, but ...

Apparently, six.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFeElpXyvbg

Nope. Make that five.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_1KfvOYVi0

Nope. Make that four!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUl7m_Kli0

Nope. Three!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLmIBebss6g

Two!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC5vuniPXuU


Different cultures. We supposedly civilized peoples push our kids, too.

 

[KingNothing]

The same argument that you guys are making goes for ANY child in ANY sport. Yes, the parents have major influence, but there is no getting around that. For every child that wishes their parents didn't push them into things, there is a teenager or adult who wishes their parents had pushed them more.

There is absolutely nothing saying martial arts need spiritual development. That's something you see in movies. A great many martial arts, even aside from MMA, lack the whole 'spiritual development' thing.

Look, this happens with every sport. If you've never practiced both a striking and grappling martial art...of course you are not going to appreciate the intricacies of it and appreciate the work that goes into becoming great at it.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Everyone is influenced by people at young ages. But a beauty pageant for kids winning a contest is to be demonized and a spelling bee isn't?

Sure, but the question is whether it is a positive or negative influence. Spelling Bee will at least improve mental development. Taking hits to your body doesn't. However I agree that there are abuses in there too.

The same argument that you guys are making goes for ANY child in ANY sport. Yes, the parents have major influence, but there is no getting around that. For every child that wishes their parents didn't push them into things, there is a teenager or adult who wishes their parents had pushed them more.

Pushing your child into a fighting sport without moral guidance is a mistake in my book. There is a big difference in basketball or piano to boxing. One increases mental fitness, the other increases brain damage.

There is absolutely nothing saying martial arts need spiritual development. That's something you see in movies. A great many martial arts, even aside from MMA, lack the whole 'spiritual development' thing.

Then it is not a martial art, it is just fighting. The art implies mental development through it's cultural philosophy.

Look, this happens with every sport. If you've never practiced both a striking and grappling martial art...of course you are not going to appreciate the intricacies of it and appreciate the work that goes into becoming great at it.

I took Tae-Kwon-Do for three years and although it was a complete joke, at least the master did teach me Korean culture and the philosophy behind the moves. He also taught martial arts are for self defense only and we sparred using proper gear.

 

[Ivan92]

I really don't know if I should watch that. Just reading the title of the thread disturbs me a lot!

 

[Willowz]

Reminds me of Clockwork Orange for some odd reason.

 

[AlephZero]

Maybe, does anyone have back drop on the training? Are they taking traditional karate or judo? Martial arts must contain mental and spiritual development.

From other BBC news reports on this, they were taking part in "MMA" (Multi martial arts) which uses a combination of techniques from several of the "traditional" martial arts disciplines, including the mental and spiritual aspects.

Extrapolating from a Google search for MMA clubs in my home town, there must be thousands of them in the whole of the UK, and (according to BBC news) many of them take part in regular competitive events - though normally with an audience of "families of club members" not the general public.

I don't have any connection with this, but it seems that there was nothing particularly unusual about this event, except for the fact that it was sensationalized by a newspaper report, and of course once the story was in the public domain it spread. The fact that the fight took place in a "cage" was apparently more by happenstance than for any other reason (the cage just happened to be set up at the time) - though clearly that was bad publicity once the "Why O why O why is the country doing to the dogs" brigade got to hear about it.

Don't worry, there will be another half-true sensationalized news story to replace it in a few days time!

Apparently the video was posted on youtube without the consent of the family of one of the kids involved. I have no idea who decided to do that, or what their motives were, but AFAIK that would seem to be at best borderline-illegal under UK law, even though the actual contest was entirely legal.

 

[KingNothing]

Greg, I understand what you are saying, but do try to understand that the word "martial art" is not necessarily defined as something including philosophy or cultural development, even though that does tag along in many cases. There are tons of martial arts that do not involve these things. What would be your word for those that don't include philosophy?

As far as the spelling bee being better for mental development, you're 100% right. BUT, not every kid desires to be a great (or even good) intellectual. There are a lot of people that simply grow up caring more about sports and physical activities. The bottom line, and I hope we can at least agree on this, is that the onus is on the parents to make a judgment call about what might be best for their child and what their child might be happiest doing.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

There are tons of martial arts that do not involve these things. What would be your word for those that don't include philosophy?

Pop culture maybe define a fighting style as a martial art (mostly for promotion), but it doesn't make it so. I respect the ancient arts as do most because because they had a purpose outside violence. Martial arts is about full personal development, not just developing a punch to win a match. Again, I don't have a problem with a full grown man doing whatever he wants to his own body, but with undeveloped kids it's different.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Hey if you want to turn your kid into a mindless fighting brute then go ahead. I think most parents would be rational and let their kid be normal. Doing MMA at age 8 is insane and MMA is pathetic to even attempt at that age since you can't properly build your delts, tri, bi, chest, traps, and core. If you want to call it an art then you have to have properly built people conducting that art. A bunch of pre - pubescent kids slamming each other is hardly an art. Real UFC is nothing like that. This is barbarism and nothing more. But if you think that's bad look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMx7rDE4m0w
and this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esrqV8IVorQ
They are all equally disgusting. There are certain things you just don't force a kid to do. Its not art at that level, its just selfish parents taking advantage of their very young kids.

 

[DoggerDan]

Not all martial arts training centers around giving, taking, and blocking punches and kicks. Not all martial arts requires you to adopt their philosophy. On the other hand, pushing the physical limits of any child can lead to serious injury and lifelong debilitation.

I played hard as a child, riding bikes, playing tag, kick the can, baseball, and football. The latter two did little to get me into or keep me in shape. Swimming, running, and cycling were responsible for the excellent physical shape I've enjoyed throughout my life.

 

[Proton Soup]

Pop culture maybe define a fighting style as a martial art (mostly for promotion), but it doesn't make it so. I respect the ancient arts as do most because because they had a purpose outside violence. Martial arts is about full personal development, not just developing a punch to win a match. Again, I don't have a problem with a full grown man doing whatever he wants to his own body, but with undeveloped kids it's different.

i think you're being a bit elitist. this crap gets tossed about on every sport, especially football. football is all about teamwork, being a team player, sportsmanship, blah, blah, blah. i got made to play little league baseball and football, apparently because some teacher at school seemed to think i wasn't socialized enough or something. about all i got out of it is that other kids like to hurt each other, quite often using their now-invincible noggin. i was terribly uncoordinated for those sports, and learned that the average boy is pretty stupid and thinks head injuries are a sign of valor. OK, maybe I'm elitist, too. or at least not a "team player".

but really, much of this martial arts stuff is also a crock. i guess the personal development sells well to western parents, but the muay thai elbow boxers are in it for the blood. hey, at least their stuff works, though, right? that's why much of this mixed martial arts business got started, isn't it? because with most arts, if you ever got in a real street fight, you'd get your arse kicked. might as well stick with yoga for your zen high.

but I'm with you on the kiddie beauty pageants, that stuff is just plain creepy. and almost as abusive as putting little girls in gymnastics.

 

[dlgoff]

As the father of a 3rd degree black belt who started at age eight, this is all I've got to say:

 

[Drakkith]

but I'm with you on the kiddie beauty pageants, that stuff is just plain creepy. and almost as abusive as putting little girls in gymnastics.

What's wrong with gymnastics? All 3 of my sisters did it, as did I, and one probably could have had a chance at the national team if she had stayed in another year or two. In the end she didn't want to do it anymore and my parents didn't make her.

 

[Ken Natton]

I cannot see this as having any equivalence whatever with kids participating in other sports. The first important context of this incident is that it happened at a pub, not at a sports hall. Beyond the simple point that a pub is a wholly inappropriate environment for eight-year-olds from the outset, there is a big difference in the frame of mind in which people go to participate in sports at a venue designated for that purpose and the frame of mind in which people go to a place whose primary raison d’etre is the consumption of alcohol, with any other events that may occur there being only intended to encourage patronage. There is also a massive difference between children participating in a sport under the close guidance of coaches trained not just in the teaching of their sport but also trained in the specific matter of coaching children, and children participating in an activity that involves deliberate acts of violence, however controlled, for the entertainment of adults. Yes I go watching my two boys playing football every Saturday morning, and sometimes I derive genuine enjoyment from it. There are plenty of other times when it is less entertaining and much more inconvenient, but whether or not, its primary purpose is to provide the boys with an opportunity to participate in something that they enjoy and that has a positive influence on their development, its primary purpose is neither for my entertainment nor for my convenience. Whatever easy conclusions you may jump to about exactly what these two boys really felt about what was happening, it was not their fighting that I found disturbing but its context.

 

[Jack21222]

because martial arts isn't just about violence, it's an art. This is just pure violence.

When I was in karate at ages 10-12, we had sparring matches. There was very little art about it.

Football is far more violent and causes more injuries. As long as there are pads and rules involved in these MMA events (such as no strikes to the head), I'm fine with it. I just cannot think of a good reason to ban MMA and not ban football.

*EDIT* Having watched the video, I feel that the kids should have been wearing protective gear. I've changed my stance on this particular video, but not properly-administered MMA events.

 

[estro]

...
Football is far more violent and causes more injuries. As long as there are pads and rules involved in these MMA events (such as no strikes to the head), I'm fine with it. I just cannot think of a good reason to ban MMA and not ban football.
...

1. Football is not art. [your comparisons don't make sense]
2. If you experienced violence while playing football you must be playing the wrong players.

 

[chiro]

If people want to do it, then let them do it. I'd rather these kids battle it out in a supervised fashion and taking out their energy in this manner than do it in some other fashion.

If they aren't hurting anyone else (in this case both are consenting), then what is the problem? If you want to believe in and practice a lifestyle that others find repulsive, yet you don't infringe on other peoples liberties, then why the hell shouldn't anyone else?

Again as long as people don't infringe on basic human rights, then they should be able to do whatever the hell they want and everyone should enjoy this god given right to do so.

You're right, he isn't a slave, but at that age in the right environment there is little difference. Do you support those very young girls in beauty pageants?

So where does personal responsibility begin and end?

Part of life is about making decisions and you will always be in a situation where you have to think for yourself. Kids have to do this regularly in school. They choose their friends, their hobbies, their subjects and engage in many important decision making instances throughout their childhood. They aren't stupid.

A large part of life is making mistakes, and considering that for this issue, they are being made in a controlled environment gives me fuel to support this: making things taboo can be one of the worst things to do when it comes to young children and their learning environment: it often backfires and can cause even more damage if a child ends up doing something without the controlled environment in place and if things get really ugly there, then you might think twice about your position on this.

 

[NeoDevin]

As with any other children's activity, there will be some parents who take it too far.

This is true of beauty pageants, football, gymnastics, music, spelling bees, math, and (maybe more so here in Canada) hockey.

I think these parents are probably among the most extreme "martial arts parents" out there, and the video in the OP was probably the most extreme 30 seconds of the event. I don't think that the video was representative of the majority of mixed martial arts events held for children.

 

[Proton Soup]

What's wrong with gymnastics? All 3 of my sisters did it, as did I, and one probably could have had a chance at the national team if she had stayed in another year or two. In the end she didn't want to do it anymore and my parents didn't make her.

if they were competitive, then energy balance will be affected and it will delay and alter their development.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20840251

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I don't see a problem, they're not really fighting MMA, just submission grappling.
No punches, kicks.
I'm a big mma fan, but I think it should be for people aged over 18.

 

[Drakkith]

if they were competitive, then energy balance will be affected and it will delay and alter their development.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20840251

I'll take that with a grain of salt, as at no point in time did any of my sisters nor anyone else I knew have "restricted energy availability".

 

[Jack21222]

1. Football is not art. [your comparisons don't make sense]
2. If you experienced violence while playing football you must be playing the wrong players.

1) MMA isn't an art either, it's a sport. Just like football is a sport. How on Earth do my comparisons not make sense?

2) You've never played football, have you? My collarbone would like a word with you, since it never healed properly.

 

[Proton Soup]

I'll take that with a grain of salt, as at no point in time did any of my sisters nor anyone else I knew have "restricted energy availability".

it doesn't mean that food access was restricted. it's a difference between input and output. you also see it fairly common in some older (high school, college) female athletes and the first signs are things like menstrual cycle disruptions. but like i said, competitive. if they aren't competitive, and you don't see hormonal disruptions and impaired growth, then maybe it's nothing for you to worry about.

 

[lisab]

Wow, that's quite mild. It's just grappling. They should be wearing head gear, mouth guards, and maybe pads, though.

I'd be careful to ensure that the kids really want to do it, and aren't just trying to please the adults in their lives. But then, that should be a concern for most activities kids get involved in.

I must say, those kids look healthy and fit. I bet they don't spend hours and hours playing video games or watching TV.

 

[estro]

1) MMA isn't an art either, it's a sport. Just like football is a sport. How on Earth do my comparisons not make sense?

2) You've never played football, have you? My collarbone would like a word with you, since it never healed properly.

1. You made a comparison between martial arts and this cage fighting!
2. Actually I'm playing in my university football [and chess =)] team.PS I'm now thinking you're possible was talking about american football [omg this game is pure craziness]?

 

[KingNothing]

Yes, american football is very dangerous. It's not uncommon for a 200lb kid to get double or triple blocked by a bunch of 250lb kids. That's 750 pounds of force...

On that note, the cage is what really prompts a knee-jerk reaction from a lot of people. In reality, it is a lot safer than ropes and allows for more strategy than a mat with 'out-of-bounds'.

 

[lisab]

Yes, american football is very dangerous. It's not uncommon for a 200lb kid to get double or triple blocked by a bunch of 250lb kids. That's 750 pounds of force...

On that note, the cage is what really prompts a knee-jerk reaction from a lot of people. In reality, it is a lot safer than ropes and allows for more strategy than a mat with 'out-of-bounds'.

That's quite possible. The words "kids", "fight", and "cage" don't sound kind or gentle .

 

[Drakkith]

it doesn't mean that food access was restricted. it's a difference between input and output. you also see it fairly common in some older (high school, college) female athletes and the first signs are things like menstrual cycle disruptions. but like i said, competitive. if they aren't competitive, and you don't see hormonal disruptions and impaired growth, then maybe it's nothing for you to worry about.

I'm not disagreeing that those things can happen, I'm just saying that from my personal experience and observation that did not happen. I will admit that I have a limited view of the subject though, so I can see this happening depending on the training regime and the individual.

 

[Jack21222]

1. You made a comparison between martial arts and this cage fighting!
2. Actually I'm playing in my university football [and chess =)] team.


PS I'm now thinking you're possible was talking about american football [omg this game is pure craziness]?

1) What you call "cage fighting" IS MARTIAL ARTS. It's right there in the name. Mixed Martial Arts. Most of what you see in that video is Jiu-Jitsu. If you want to complain that Jiu-Jitsu isn't a martial art, then you might be the first person in the history of the world to make that argument.

2) Yes, American football. The kind of football where a 250 pound linebacker traveling at 10 miles per hour can hit a 180 pound wide receiver just as he catches the ball.

 

[DoggerDan]

1. Football is not art.

Any endeavor whereby decisions are made and actions are taken based at least in part on experience-fueled intuition is art. The way some folks can hit sporting clays is art. The way some welders can lay a perfect bead is art. The way a mason can lay brick is art, and is why he and others who produce things with their hands are referred to as artisans.

Even painting employs aspects of science, such as color selection, formulation of paints, and so forth. The result is half science and engineering, and half intuition and experience. Football is art. Flying a plane is art. Carving a Quaker chair is art.