A collateral question about rockets

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The discussion centers on the validity of Navier-Stokes (N-S) equations for modeling the supersonic aerodynamics of the Soyuz/ST rocket at high altitudes, specifically around 100 km. It is noted that N-S equations are not applicable due to low density conditions, and an alternative approach involving Newtonian flow is suggested, although no specific software is recommended for this. The complexity of modeling interactions at the atomic level is acknowledged, with concerns about the computational demands of such simulations. The user is considering using N-S equations at a lower altitude of 50 km, where density is more favorable, and seeks advice on the threshold altitude for N-S validity. The conversation highlights the challenges of accurately modeling rocket aerodynamics in upper atmospheric conditions.
Clausius2
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My question is about the rocket aerodynamics. I'm getting in a course of CFD (computational fluid dynamics) in my university. We have to do a project for this quarter. And I thought in modelling (with Matlab) the supersonic aerodynamics of the Soyuz/ST rocket. I'm only going to test the leading fairing. I have made yet the mesh generation in Matlab (it took me a lot of time) with an elliptic generator. But now I'm analysing the on flight conditions of the free stream, at a height of 100km. I'm not sure if Navier Stokes equations are valid at such heights, where density is too small. If anybody has coursed aerospace studies, have you ever made something similar and with which equations?. I have read N-S equations are not valid for the re-entry of space vehicles due to the low density. If they are not valid, which equations are used?. I need some advice before proceeding further.

:smile:
 
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Hi Clausius.

N-S are not valid. For upper atmospheres, you need to look at Newtonian Flow. I don't know of any software which currently handles that (maybe STK?).

Basically, you'll need to have random impacts of single atoms and molecules and consider the momentum transferred. This should be doable, but will take an enormous amount of work to get coded, as far as I can see.

Now, if it's low enough for a shock wave to form, I'm totally at a loss how to model it.

If you find out, let me know. This is one thing we needed to scrap from the report for our space tourism project. We tried doing it in FEMLAB, wasted entirely too much time, and then found out the equations we were using weren't valid for that situation.
 
Thanks.

I have not another possibility than using N-S equations. In part because I don't know a Newtonian formulation as you referred to. As far as I know I think Fluent cannot deal with low density flows. I have heard about the Lagrangian formulation in which is modeled the movement of each particle as you said. But surely it needs a lot of computing time!

Anyway, I have the curves of acceleration (U-h and U-t) of the rocket. So that I have to choose some height valid for N-S equations. Currently I'm linearizing around a height of 50 Km (at the Stratopause). There \rho=0.96*10^{-3} kg/m^3 as the Standard Atmosphere figures state.

Which height do you think is the threshold for the validity of the N-S equations?
 
Due to the constant never ending supply of "cool stuff" happening in Aerospace these days I'm creating this thread to consolidate posts every time something new comes along. Please feel free to add random information if its relevant. So to start things off here is the SpaceX Dragon launch coming up shortly, I'll be following up afterwards to see how it all goes. :smile: https://blogs.nasa.gov/spacex/
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