A little logical doubt on Hawking radiation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Hawking radiation, specifically questioning the validity of the particle-antiparticle pair explanation and its implications for the occurrence of Hawking radiation. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings and interpretations of quantum fluctuations at the event horizon of black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if quantum fluctuations at the event horizon have equal probabilities for particles to either drift away or be pulled into the black hole, then they could cancel each other out, implying that Hawking radiation should not occur.
  • Another participant counters that the particle-antiparticle pair explanation is merely a heuristic and not the actual mechanism of Hawking radiation, indicating that it should not be interpreted literally.
  • The second participant also notes that the heuristic does not accurately reflect the underlying mathematics of the phenomenon, suggesting that the escaping particle contributes to the mass of the black hole.
  • A later reply acknowledges a misunderstanding of the heuristic explanation and expresses gratitude for the clarification, indicating a recognition of the initial errors made.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are competing interpretations of the particle-antiparticle explanation and its relevance to the actual process of Hawking radiation.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted limitation in the understanding of the heuristic explanation of Hawking radiation, with participants acknowledging that it is not a literal description of the process and that the actual mechanics are more complex and mathematically grounded.

Archmundada
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
TL;DR
As hawking radiation is based on quantum fluctuations, can they cancel out each other due to equal probabilities of a particle remaining in or drifting away?
Summary: As hawking radiation is based on quantum fluctuations, can they cancel out each other due to equal probabilities of a particle remaining in or drifting away?

I recently learned how hawking radiation actually works. It is based on quantum fluctuations which happen randomly in space. So when one of them happens on the edge of a black hole's event horizon, there is a chance that the anti-particle drifts away and the particle stays inside or gets pulled inside the black hole, and the opposite can happen too. This results in an extra particle or anti-particle which annihilates the opposite part inside the black hole.

So, shouldn't there be an equal chance of a particle drifting away or getting pulled in by the black hole? In each case, the opposite would happen to the anti-particle. So, suppose that in an instance two fluctuations happened at the edge of event horizon. In the first one the particle drifted away and in the second one, the anti-particle drifted away. So that leaves one particle and anti-particle outside the black hole, and one set inside. So, both sets can cancel out each other and the particle or anti-particle inside the black hole won't annihilate an extra particle or anti-particle.

This means that hawking radiation shouldn't happen, logically.

I might have made a big error in this, as I don't know a lot about physics. But, please correct me if you find any mistake (which there surely must be). Thanks for reading!
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
You have made TWO big errors in this. The first error is thinking that the particle-antiparticle pair explanation of Hawking Radiation is the actual explanation. It is not. It is a heuristic that Hawking came up with because, as he described it, he could not find any simpler way using English to describe something that really can only be described with math. It is not to be taken literally (although it always is by pop-science presentations)

Second, you have misunderstood even the heuristic. I can't explain it well myself but there are dozens (probably hundreds) of threads here on PF in which it is explained that in the heuristic, whichever particle falls in adds to the mass of the BH and the escaping particle just, well, escapes.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Archmundada

That's where I learned that
I don't know how I misunderstood it,

Edit: yes, I get my mistake, thanks a lot for the answer.
 
Last edited:
Archmundada said:

That's where I learned that
Yes, but this still just explains the heuristic, which, again, is NOT really what happens, so it does not correct the first of your two errors.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 73 ·
3
Replies
73
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K