Abnormal Voltages in Transformer

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of transformers under abnormal voltage conditions, particularly focusing on the transition of inductive behavior to capacitive behavior at high frequencies. Participants explore the mechanisms behind this phenomenon, referencing historical papers and discussing the implications of coil-to-coil capacitance and mutual inductance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that abrupt pulses can cause transformers to behave like capacitors due to the influence of coil-to-coil capacitance and mutual inductance, suggesting a non-linear phenomenon.
  • It is mentioned that inductors can start to behave like capacitors at high frequencies, particularly at self-resonant frequencies (SRF), where components below SRF react inductively and those above react capacitively.
  • Questions are raised about the definition of frequency in the context of abrupt pulses, including terms like excitation mode and relaxation time.
  • One participant describes a coil as a network of inductance (L), capacitance (C), and resistance (R), emphasizing that the capacitance is not an obvious component but arises from various effects, including wire length and electric field interactions.
  • Discussion includes the potential for high voltages at resonance in lightly loaded circuits, where circulating energy can lead to significant voltage amplification.
  • Another participant highlights the construction of coils, noting that at sufficiently high frequencies, the windings can be viewed as a series of capacitors due to the insulation between conductors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the mechanisms and implications of transformer behavior under abnormal voltages, with no consensus reached on specific definitions or equations related to the crossover between inductive and capacitive behavior.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the lack of clear definitions for terms like "abrupt pulse" and "self-resonant frequency," as well as the dependence on specific circuit configurations and conditions that may not be fully addressed in the discussion.

EEngineer91
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Hi,

Please have a look at this paper:

"Abnormal Voltages in Transformers" L.F. Blume, 1919 AIEE (someone had mentioned this prior)

I tried attaching the paper, did not work. The most interesting this is that abrupt pulses make transformers react as a condenser rather than an inductor? What is the mechanism behind this? Obviously, coil-to-coil capacitance and mutual inductance plays huge role. Seems to be a non-linear phenomenon, and could have some interesting implications. Anyone have additional references that are similar?
 
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There is a point where most inductors will start to behave like capacitors as the frequency increases. When the component goes through self resonance you have reached this point. The same applies for capacitors as the frequency increases. The lead length becomes significant and the capacitor now appears inductive.
 
What is the reason or mechanism behind this? Seems like it works in transformers because of coil-to-coil capacitance and mutual inductance. How would you define the frequency of an abrupt pulse? Excitation mode? Relaxation time? Or time between impulses? Seems like a perfect impulse would have infinite frequency...
 
I attached the paper to this post. https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=4808587&postcount=11

A coil will have one or more self resonant frequencies, SRF.
Below that frequency it appears inductive. Immediately above it appears capacitive.

If you imagine a perfect impulse, it will have a harmonic frequency spectrum from it's repetition frequency to infinity.

Any harmonic frequency components below the SRF will react inductively.
Components above the SRF will react capacitively and so be attenuated by what is effectively a low-pass filter.
 
Any equations or references to explain this cross-over? What about the voltage amplification (the alpha factor)?
 
A coil can be modeled as a network of L, C and R. The L is reasonably obvious, the R can be calculated, but the C is not actually present as an obvious component of the coil. The apparent lump of C is due to many effects such as the length of the wire and the interaction of n factorial electric fields.

So take the coil model to be a simple LCR tuned circuit. Then study the reactance of the network as it crosses the SRF.
At resonance, if the circuit is lightly loaded, (high Q), the circulating energy may result in very high voltages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLC_circuit
 
If you think about how a coil is made, particularly a large one, is built as a number of windings of insulated conductor - and consider you can not instantaneously change the current in an inductor, then there is a V developed across the windings, basically at sufficently high frequency - the windings look like a series of capacitors. ( conductor-insulator-conductor-insulator-conductor-insulator - etc)
 
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