Absolute simultaneity with Einstein synchronized clocks?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of absolute simultaneity in the context of Einstein synchronized clocks, particularly examining scenarios involving moving observers and light signals. Participants explore theoretical implications, mathematical formulations, and the clarity of the proposed setups.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a scenario involving a moving observer and synchronized clocks, proposing equations to describe the relationship between apparent and actual positions of light signals.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the initial setup, pointing out potential typos and seeking clarification on the definitions and timing of events in different reference frames.
  • A third participant expresses confusion regarding the questions posed by the original poster, indicating a lack of understanding of the discussion's intent.
  • A later reply reiterates concerns about the clarity of the setup and questions the feasibility of establishing absolute simultaneity based on the provided descriptions and equations.
  • Further mathematical transformations are proposed to relate the events associated with apparent and actual positions of a particle, questioning whether these transformations can express absolute simultaneity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the clarity and completeness of the initial scenario. There is no consensus on the feasibility of establishing absolute simultaneity based on the proposed framework, and multiple interpretations of the setup remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the initial descriptions, including unclear definitions and potential typographical errors. The discussion also reflects uncertainty regarding the timing and positioning of events in different inertial frames.

bernhard.rothenstein
Messages
988
Reaction score
1
1. Absolute simultaneity with standard synchronized clocks
In an one space dimensions approach we propose the following scenario. At the origin O of the inertial reference frame I we find a clock C0(0) and a source of light S(0). An observer R’ moves with constant speed V in the positive direction of the OX axis. M(a(xa) represents his position when source S emits a light signal in the positive direction of th)e OX axis, clock C0 reading t=0. M represents the location of R’ when the light arrives at the former position of R’ his position being defined by
x=x(a)(1+V/c) (1)
Clock C(x) reads at that very moment
t=x(a)(1+V/c)/c
(2)
clocks C0 and C being standard synchronized.
It is usual to consider that M(a) represents the apparent position M representing the actual position. (Robert J. Deissler, "The appearance, apparent speed and removal of optical effects for relavitistically moving objects," Am.J.Phys. 73 663 2005)
The event E(x=xa(1+V/c); t=ta(1+V/c)) has when detected from I’ the space-time coordinates
x'=x(a)/g (3)
t'=t(a)/g . (4)
Is there some flow?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The set up seems extremely confused or at least incomplete.

What is “a”
“M(a(xa) “ looks like a typo.

Can we assume x’=0 is where the observer R’ is at on I’
When t=? & t’=? did R’ crossed x=0 sometime before the light flashed.
The light flashes at x=0 t=0; where and when does it go off in the I’ frame.
Since the source could be a point in the I’ frame. Where and when is that I’ frame point, x=? & t= ? when R’ was at x=0.

I don’t know what the question “Is there some flow?” means;
But I don’t see any prospects for setting any form of “Absolute Simultaneity” in this description.
 
I don't think I have ever understood one of Bernard's questions.
 
apparent and actual positions

RandallB said:
The set up seems extremely confused or at least incomplete.

What is “a”
“M(a(xa) “ looks like a typo.

Can we assume x’=0 is where the observer R’ is at on I’
When t=? & t’=? did R’ crossed x=0 sometime before the light flashed.
The light flashes at x=0 t=0; where and when does it go off in the I’ frame.
Since the source could be a point in the I’ frame. Where and when is that I’ frame point, x=? & t= ? when R’ was at x=0.

I don’t know what the question “Is there some flow?” means;
But I don’t see any prospects for setting any form of “Absolute Simultaneity” in this description.
Thanks for your answer. Consider please the following one space dimensions detected from I. A particle moves with constant speed V in the positive direction of the OX axis. x defines its position at t=0 when a light signal is emitted from the origin O (APPARENT POSITION) X defining its position when the light signal arrives at its location. (ACTUAL POSITION). We have
X=x+Vx/c=x(1+V/c) (1)
Let t=x/c and T=X/c be the times when the light signal arrives at the apparent and at the actual positions respectively. The mentioned light signal performs the synchronization of the clocks of I. Performing the Lorentz transformations to the rest frame of the moving particle I'
we obtain
T'=g(T-Vx/c^2)=T[(1-V/c)/(1+V/c)]^1/2=t/g (2)
X'=g(X-VT)=X[(1-V/c)/(1+V/c)]=x/g (3)
Do you consider that (2) and (3) are the transformation equations for the events e(x,x/c) and E(X,X/c) for the space-time coordinates of events associated with the apparent and the actual positions of the same particle? Is (2) an expression for absolute simultaneity (t=0, T'=0)
The inertial reference frames I and I' are in the standard arrangement.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 84 ·
3
Replies
84
Views
7K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
4K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
2K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
  • · Replies 51 ·
2
Replies
51
Views
5K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
6K