Absolute zero by definition is "nothing"

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of absolute zero and whether it can be equated to "nothing." Participants explore the implications of absolute zero in relation to quantum mechanics, temperature, and the nature of existence at such low temperatures.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question if absolute zero can be considered "nothing," suggesting that at absolute zero, there could be no quantum fluctuations.
  • Others argue that absolute zero is merely the lowest point on the temperature scale and does not imply the absence of matter or energy.
  • A participant emphasizes that absolute zero is a theoretical limit that cannot be reached, and that zero point energy still exists at this temperature.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that a lone atom at absolute zero does not disappear; it simply exists in its lowest energy state, contrasting with macroscopic objects.
  • One participant notes that temperature is a concept that applies to macroscopic systems, and that the definition of temperature becomes problematic at the microscopic level due to quantization of states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether absolute zero can be equated with "nothing." There is no consensus, as some argue for the theoretical implications of absolute zero while others emphasize its practical limitations and the persistence of energy.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include the dependence on definitions of temperature and energy, as well as unresolved mathematical considerations regarding the behavior of systems at absolute zero.

GregoryC
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Is absolute zero nothing? Can a quanta exist in nothing? There could be no quantum fluctuations at absolute zero.
 
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Absolute zero is just the bottom end of our temperature scale. There is no direct relation of that to the presence, or absence, of anything. You could argue that the only way of achieving absolute zero is by removing everything (including space), but that's a rather moot consideration and probably not what you mean.
 
Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about. It is theoretical as is infinity.
 
Absolute zero is a temperature, not nothing. You can have matter at temperatures arbitrarily close to absolute zero. It doesn't become nothing. Absolute zero is a mathematical limit which cannot be reached, only approached. You still have some zero point energy at zero temperature, so it's not correct to say the quantum fluctuations go away.
 
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GregoryC said:
Is absolute zero nothing?
Is anything nothing? Never.
 
Consider a lone atom with its electrons in their ground states. This is essentially what you're talking about. The atom doesn't somehow disappear just because it is in its lowest energy configuration. The only difference between a lone atom and macroscopic object is that the extra energy is partitioned into an enormous number of states and cannot be gotten rid of entirely.
 
Temperature only really makes sense for macroscopic systems. A lone atom has an energy, but not a temperature. That's because temperature is defined as a derivative:
$$\frac{1}{T} = \frac{\mathrm{d}S}{\mathrm{d}E}$$
The derivative doesn't really make sense on a microscopic scale because states are quantized. On a macroscopic scale, we smooth over the states, and treat the system as having a "density of states", such that the number of states varies smoothly with energy. Absolute zero is not possible to reach because you can't reasonably treat the system as continuous for very small changes in energy, and the mathematics are invalid.
 
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