Addition of moments of inertia

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the addition of moments of inertia, particularly in the context of calculating the moment of inertia for composite shapes, such as spheres and shells. Participants explore whether the principle of adding moments of inertia applies universally to all shapes and if it is governed by a specific theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests calculating the moment of inertia for a large sphere by adding the moment of inertia of a smaller sphere and that of a spherical shell.
  • Another participant mentions the Parallel Axis Theorem but questions its applicability since the axis of rotation does not change.
  • Some participants assert that "moments of inertia add" and inquire if this principle has a specific name or theorem associated with it.
  • A participant explains the mathematical basis for the addition of moments of inertia using integrals and the definition of moment of inertia.
  • There is a discussion about whether the principle of adding moments of inertia applies to all shapes, provided they are measured relative to a common axis.
  • Several participants reference the principle of superposition as a broader context for understanding the addition of moments of inertia.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the relationship between the Parallel Axis Theorem and the addition of moments of inertia, suggesting that the theorem primarily addresses shifting axes rather than the addition principle itself.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of specifying that moments of inertia add only when measured with respect to the same axis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the application of the addition principle to moments of inertia. While some support the idea that moments of inertia can be added, others debate the relevance of the Parallel Axis Theorem and the conditions under which the addition holds true.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the general applicability of the addition principle to various shapes and the specific conditions required for it to hold, particularly concerning the axes of rotation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals interested in mechanics, particularly those dealing with rotational dynamics and the calculation of moments of inertia for composite bodies.

  • #31
hutchphd said:
The construction of any object from two pieces is covered by the parallel axis theorem even if done sequentially in time. And the derivation of the parallel axis theorem must contain the case where the axes of the two objects coincide. I prefer one theorem not three.

In the case where the axes coincide, the parallel axis theorem reduces to ##I_1 = I_2##; i.e. the MoI of the same distribution about the same axis is, of course, the same. However I don't see how this helps.

As @robphy notes, the parallel axis theorem doesn't cover the addition of the MoI's of different components about some axis to obtain the MoI of the whole configuration about that axis. That is instead an example of the principle of superposition.

I wrote up the two derivations in #24 and they are quite distinct operations!
 
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  • #32
My guess is that the parallel axis theorem contains all of the information necessary to define the moments of inertia for any arbitrary object, rendering this discussion moot.
If not, then your point is taken...
 
  • #33
hutchphd said:
In practice my use of the theorem always involves construction of a new object from lesser simpler pieces. If you enjoy a hundred special rules then you are wired different from me.

The construction of any object from two pieces is covered by the parallel axis theorem even if done sequentially in time. And the derivation of the parallel axis theorem must contain the case where the axes of the two objects coincide. I prefer one theorem not three.
In this problem given by the OP (adding of shells with a common center), the parallel-axis theorem is a vacuous step since the translation from the center of mass of the object is the zero vector.

Even if it were not the zero vector, the parallel axis theorem tells you about the moment of inertia of an object of mass M_1 about a parallel axis. Once armed with that information,
you still have to use superposition
to add that moment of inertia of the first object
to the moment of inertia of a second object with mass M_2 (possibly also obtained with help of the parallel axis theorem) .

So,

<br /> \begin{align*}<br /> I&#039;_{\underbrace{M_1+M_2}_{superposition}} &amp;=<br /> \underbrace{<br /> \underbrace{\left(M_1\Delta d_1^2+I_{M_1}\right)}_{\mbox{ parallel axis thm} }{{\Large +}}<br /> \underbrace{\left(M_2\Delta d_2^2+I_{M_2}\right)}_{\mbox{ parallel axis thm} }<br /> }_{\mbox{superposition}}<br /> \end{align*}<br />In the OP, d_1=0 and d_2=0 since concentric shells are being used.
So, the parallel axis theorem alone doesn't help the OP.

Update:
as @Ibix suggests below and @etotheipi suggested above,
the parallel axis theorem relies on superposition.
 
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  • #34
The derivation of the parallel axis theorem that I'm familiar with is that for a body of density ##\rho(x,y,z)## rotating (without loss of generality) about an axis parallel to the z direction and passing through ##x=x_0, y=0## has moment of inertia$$\begin{eqnarray*}
I&=&\int_V\rho(x,y,z)\left((x-x_0)^2+y^2\right)dV\\
&=&\int_V\rho(x,y,z)(x^2+y^2)dV\\
&&-2x_0\int_V\rho(x,y,z)xdV\\
&&+x_0^2\int_V\rho(x,y,z)dV
\end{eqnarray*}$$
The first term is the moment of inertia about the origin, the second term is zero if the center of mass lies at the origin, and the third term is just ##x_0^2M##, where ##M## is the mass of the object.

It seems to me that this derivation relies on an assumption that you can add moments of inertia for point particles rotating about a common axis - i.e. that you can write the integral at all. If you can do that then both the parallel axis theorem and the answer to the OP's question follow.

Edit: beaten to it by both @etotheipi and @robphy, I see
 
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  • #35
Ibix said:
It seems to me that this derivation relies on an assumption that you can add moments of inertia for point particles rotating about a common axis - i.e. that you can write the integral at all.

And I suppose this really just comes from how the MoI is defined in the first place. E.g. for a rigid body rotating in the ##x##-##y## plane about the ##\hat{z}## axis, each particle has ##\vec{L}_i = \vec{r}_i \times m_i (\vec{\omega} \times \vec{r}_i) = m_i {r_i}^2 \omega \hat{z}##, so it follows ##\vec{L} = (\sum m_i r_i^2) \omega \hat{z}## from which we define ##I_z = \sum m_i r_i^2##, i.e. as a summation over mass elements. And same goes for the integral as the limit of this sum for mass elements ##dm##.
 
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  • #36
Indeed, without superposition, one can't add vectors [and tensors].
(The moment of inertia is really a tensor.)
 
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