Americans are genetically superior to all others.

[eNtRopY]

No other country has the same level of variety in its gene pool than America. Variety in the gene pool is important for increasing the odds of survival against genetic defect. Therefore, I assert that as a whole, Americans are genetically superior to all others.

eNtRopY

 

[Chemicalsuperfreak]

'muhricans have the greatest variety? Hmm. Is there a ranking? What about Brazil? Or south africa?

 

[Deslaar]

I presume this is a joke. Reading it out of context (if there is a context) I give it a 2/10.

 

[eNtRopY]

It's not a joke. It's a reality you can't deny.

Do some research on the people of Ireland. You will see that their relatively small gene pool has led to larger numbers of genetic defects per populace than normal. This situation is also readily observed in small communities that do not allow breeding with outsiders... such as the Amish.

Most Americans do not descend from a single ethnic group. Therefore, I propose that the average American has more genetic variety than the average person from almost all (if not all) other countries.

eNtRopY

 

[Deslaar]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
It's not a joke. It's a reality you can't deny.

Do some research on the people of Ireland. You will see that their relatively small gene pool has led to larger numbers of genetic defects per populace than normal. This situation is also readily observed in small communities that do not allow breeding with outsiders... such as the Amish.

Most Americans do not descend from a single ethnic group. Therefore, I propose that the average American has more genetic variety than the average person from almost all (if not all) other countries.

eNtRopY

Well first of all I don't believe there is any such thing as an "American gene-pool" since America is not a sexually isolated population. Second of all I don't believe that America is the most genetically varied population. I would say that accolade would go to Greater Europe.

 

[kyle_soule]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
Americans are genetically superior to all others.

I agree, we are superior

Although, I have noticed, that we are not the most attractive. We have a lot of attractive people, but 'pure-breads' seem to be on a higher level of 'beautiful' than we are.

 

[selfAdjoint]

MONGRELS RULE!

 

[Monique]

First look at the demographics and then say something Entropy! Pfff, for your information: a detailed study showed that people in the Netherlands are the healthiest and I am very sure that the US is somewhere down in no 20.

 

[Quasaire]

I think Andorra use to have the longest life expectancy. It was like an avg 94 years for men and women if I remember correctly. That may not be true now, however. But even with that America being 5% (291 million / 6.2 billion) of the world's population owning 1/4 ($10 trillion / $40 trillion) of the wealth is definitely the richest.

 

[Monique]

Maybe the richest, but the healthcare providing is quite bad. If I am correct, Norway has the best system for healthcare.. Scandanavian Healthcare tends to be provided by the government. I thougth that the Japanese lived the longest..

The United States is over-industrialized, which is a source of a lot of diseases. I don't think the country is old enough yet to make a homogeneous 'healthy' gene-pool. Still only a very small percentage of marriages in inter-racial.

And btw, Belgium was no. 2 on the list of countries with the healthiest people (overall taken), and guess what: belgians came from the dutch (with some admixture). *proud* And something else: dutch people are the tallest in the world, which is also a good indicator of good nutrition.

And talking about isolated populations with a limited gene-pool: that certainly doesn't mean that those populations are diseased populations. I myself study a disease in the Finnish population so I know quite a lot about population genetics. There ARE about 30 genetic diseases that have a very high prevelance in Finland and are virtually non-existent in other populations.. But this is balanced by the fact that other genetic disorders are not present in Finland, like cystic fibrosis for instance. This is called genetic drift. Some diseases will be enriched and others will disappear. Only in the situation that you have got direct inbreeding within the first or second degree that you would get a diseased population.

We aren't as similar to each other as you might think we are Entropy, so I really really doubt that the states is a genetically privaledged society.

 

[Sting]

I think Andorra use to have the longest life expectancy. It was like an avg 94 years for men and women if I remember correctly.

WHen was this? I think Japan has the highest life expentancy but I haven't kept up with current trends.

I presume this is a joke. Reading it out of context (if there is a context) I give it a 2/10.

A little off topic but you could reduce that to 1/5

 

[eNtRopY]

The only reason Americans do not have a longer life expectancy is because of the high costs of quality food and health care in America. My point is that statisically, Americans should be less prone to genetic disorder (i.e. birth defects, retardation, etc) than any other group of people.

eNtRopY

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by Sting
WHen was this? I think Japan has the highest life expentancy but I haven't kept up with current trends.

Funny, because that is exactly what I said in my post, so it must be true :P I work with two Japanese and they agree :D


And Entropy, quality food is not expensive AT ALL! It is just that the junk food is so CHEAP! A big difference there. Life in Europe is WAAAYY more expensive than life in the US, I think that Americans have a lot more money to spent than other populations, but they are kind of taken over by this whole pop-culture thing where everything has to be fast and easy?

And I stay by my point that the term genetic term American person is non-existent. Just what percentage of the European population is affected by these very rare recessive disorders? Does a Fin marying a Parisian really make a difference compared to a Fin from Helsinki compared to a Fin from Kuopio? I don't think so, I think they are equally as different. If you can, look up some articles from Leena Peltonen, eastern and western finland by themselves are very homogeneous populations, but when you compare the two they are very different.

I still don't quite understand why Americans like using the terms African American and Caucasian, first of all: Caucasians can come from Africa, second of all, people from Africa compared to Europeans are equally different compared to someone from Spain and Finland. I was even surprised that Saudi Arabian people and people from India are also classified as Caucasian.

 

[Sting]

I was even surprised that Saudi Arabian people and people from India are also classified as Caucasian.

Yes, that came as a shock to me as well when I first read it.

 

[Monique]

Caucasian according to the american heritage dictionary:

SYLLABICATION: Cau·ca·sian

PRONUNCIATION: kô-kzhn, -kzhn

ADJECTIVE:
1. Anthropology Of or being a major human racial classification traditionally distinguished by physical characteristics such as very light to brown skin pigmentation and straight to wavy or curly hair, and including peoples indigenous to Europe, northern Africa, western Asia, and India. No longer in scientific use. See Usage Note at race1.
2. Of or relating to the Caucasus region or its peoples, languages, or cultures.
3. Of or relating to a group of three language families spoken in the region of the Caucasus mountains, including Chechen, Abkhaz, and the Kartvelian languages.

NOUN:
1. Anthropology A member of the Caucasian racial classification. Not in scientific use.
2. A native or inhabitant of the Caucasus.
3. The Caucasian language family.


Especially noteworthy: the term is still used daily in scientific populations to genetically distinguish a 'caucasian' and 'african american' group.

 

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by Monique
Does a Fin marying a Parisian really make a difference compared to a Fin from Helsinki compared to a Fin from Kuopio? I don't think so, I think they are equally as different. If you can, look up some articles from Leena Peltonen, eastern and western finland by themselves are very homogeneous populations, but when you compare the two they are very different.

How about this? A Dutch person from Utrecht marries his high school sweetheart (also from Utrecht), and these two people produce offspring. Now, a Dutch person from the same town emmigrates to America, marries a person whose ancestory is English, and also produces offspring. You tell me which children will have more genetic variety.

eNtRopY

 

[iansmith]

what about Canadian Entropy? I think we are more diverse than then the USA. We got Btritish, Irish, Stochttish, English, French, Western Europe and Native Ameriquan Blood. I think we have more diversity than you guys. Also we have some black blood you did wan't during the revolution.

I think Canada has the greatest diversity!

 

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by iansmith
what about Canadian Entropy? I think we are more diverse than then the USA. We got Btritish, Irish, Stochttish, English, French, Western Europe and Native Ameriquan Blood. I think we have more diversity than you guys. Also we have some black blood you did wan't during the revolution.

I think Canada has the greatest diversity!

You've got to be kidding me. Are you saying America has no blacks? Have you actually been to America? Trust me, we have more diversity than anyone including Canada.

eNtRopY

 

[Another God]

well, Australia... is Australia.. and we rock...so ner.

 

[iansmith]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
You've got to be kidding me. Are you saying America has no blacks? Have you actually been to America? Trust me, we have more diversity than anyone including Canada.

eNtRopY

I've been to the states. I'm not saying that American do not have black. I think you're just full of your self

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by iansmith
what about Canadian Entropy? I think we are more diverse than then the USA. We got Btritish, Irish, Stochttish, English, French, Western Europe and Native Ameriquan Blood. I think we have more diversity than you guys. Also we have some black blood you did wan't during the revolution.

I think Canada has the greatest diversity!

*ughm* Africa has the greatest diversity.

And Entropy, your example might be true that the children have more genetic variety, but by all means, I really don't think that if two people from Utrecht marry each other that there is any kind of inbreeding. Only in populations that were recently founded by a handfull of people would this occur, as in some areas of Finland. The only place where your scenario might work is on one of the small dutch islands in the north where people are geographically isolated.

If you can, please take a look at the following publication:

Norio R.
The Finnish Disease Heritage III: the individual diseases.
Hum Genet. 2003 May;112(5-6):470-526. Epub 2003 Mar 08. Review.
PMID: 12627297 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.springerlink.com/app/hom...67rvvtk&referrer=contribution&format=2&page=1

 

[Monique]

And let's look at it in another way: maybe the genes of the two individuals will be incompatible and genetic disease will occur? One would think that the genes in a country are adjusted to each other to work in harmony, by selection. If you go and introduce new varients which interact with the existing gene, you have got a problem!

Think for instance about a protein that forms a heterodimer with the gene product of the other allele.. in the one population only the compatible forms of the alleles would be present, in the other population other compatible alleles might be present. What happens if you combine those two? You get a dominant genetic disorder, not a good thing right?

 

[iansmith]

Originally posted by Monique
*ughm* Africa has the greatest diversity.

Got any proof ? Can You trust a Canadian saying that Canada has the greatest diversity or can you trust an american !

Anyway, i know that i have different ancestry but it is far away (4-5 generation) therefore it is pretty much diluted.

It would be interresting to do population genetics and see how "diverse" a population is compare to another one.

As you say Monique, diversity does not mean superior. You could also have diversity for many genes but have very little diversity for other genes. The less diverse genes migth be the one that can be important for futur "selection" and the population migth become "instinct" due to lack of diversity.

 

[selfAdjoint]

See here: http://www.science.psu.edu/alert/Tishkoff1-1999.htm

 

[jcsd]

Was that Santa Claus's sleigh I just heard? No, Forgive me I thought I heard jingling when what I actually heard was jingoism.

 

[Quasaire]

WHen was this? I think Japan has the highest life expentancy but I haven't kept up with current trends.

Apparently because the depressing economy Japan has been experiencing, a unprecedented high crime rate has stroked Japan according to sources I read a few months back. Not that that has much to do with longevity though, or at least right now. Honestly, I'm not sure about the life expectancy statistics. I heard on some television program that Japan had the highest number of people over 80 years of age living. Of course, you have to recognize that Andorra's low population makes it proportionally incomparable to either the US or Japan. The stats on Andorra was from the year '98 (I believe) so that is a little outdate anyway.

I think we are more diverse than then the USA.

Actually I would say that the state of California alone is probably just or more diverse than Canada. According to the 2003 US Census Bureau report it is as follows:

60% = European origin
7% = African origin
1% = Native American origin
11% = Asian origin
32% Latino origin.

In numbers (Cali pop = 34 million) that is:

20.4 million
2.4 million
0.3 million
3 million
10.9 million

respectively.

I would consider Canada a close second. If you look here http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ca.html and click "People" you can see the percentages.

 

[iansmith]

British Isles origin 28%, French origin 23%, other European 15%, Amerindian 2%, other, mostly Asian, African, Arab 6%, mixed background 26%

white 77.1%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1.5%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.3%, other 4% (2000)

What I was taking about was the mixed background population rather than the population diversity. Canada does not have the greatest ancestry diversity. I was just joking around and doing some jingoism.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by jcsd
Was that Santa Claus's sleigh I just heard? No, Forgive me I thought I heard jingling when what I actually heard was jingoism.

OK, I had to look that one up: Jingoism:: fanatical patriotism, an appeal intended to arouse patriotic emotions.


According to CIA:

Ethnic groups in USA:
white 77.1%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1.5%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.3%, other 4% (2000)

Ethnic groups in the Netherlands:
Dutch 83%, other 17% (of which 9% are non-western origin mainly Turks, Moroccans, Antilleans, Surinamese and Indonesians) (1999 est.)

Not all that different huh? And I saw a television report on dateline yesterday which confirmed my believes. The general population has a 2-3% chance of having a child with a genetic birth-defect. When first-cousins marry each other, the percentage goes up only by 2. So imagine if people more distantly related marry each other, that is not going to make a difference.

 

[drag]

Israel

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by drag
Israel

? Anyway, Israel::

Jewish 80.1% (Europe/America-born 32.1%, Israel-born 20.8%, Africa-born 14.6%, Asia-born 12.6%), non-Jewish 19.9% (mostly Arab) (1996 est.)

 

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by Monique And I saw a television report on dateline yesterday which confirmed my believes. The general population has a 2-3% chance of having a child with a genetic birth-defect. When first-cousins marry each other, the percentage goes up only by 2.

If I had any real way of knowing that this piece of information is indeed fact, then I would officially withdraw my initial claim and delcare you the winner of this argument. However, can I really trust the validity of unreferenced, second-hand information? I don't think so.

eNtRopY

BTW -- There is definitely not near-equal levels of diversity in the Netherlands and the USA. You simply grouped all whites together for the US and neglected to mention that almost all whites in the Netherlands are Dutch. Also, you conveniently withheld the fact that most of the minority groups in the Netherlands come from just a handful of countries... unlike the US.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
If I had any real way of knowing that this piece of information is indeed fact, then I would officially withdraw my initial claim and delcare you the winner of this argument. However, can I really trust the validity of unreferenced, second-hand information? I don't think so.

eNtRopY

BTW -- There is definitely not near-equal levels of diversity in the Netherlands and the USA. You simply grouped all whites together for the US and neglected to mention that almost all whites in the Netherlands are Dutch. Also, you conveniently withheld the fact that most of the minority groups in the Netherlands come from just a handful of countries... unlike the US.

I didn't do anything with the information, I directly quoted it from the CIA world factbook. But you are correct in your comment.

 

[Monique]

FIRST COUSINS FACE LOWER RISK OF HAVING CHILDREN
WITH GENETIC CONDITIONS THAN IS WIDELY PERCEIVED

http://www.nsgc.org/newsroom/release_040302.asp

btw, this comes from the national society of genetic counselors so I guess they would know :)

 

[bogdan]

I don't think "geneticaly superior" means having the greatest variety of genes...it means having the "best" genes...compare it to "hibridization"...if a "high quality" "plant" is "combined" with a low quality plant...the result is not too good...but if only the best plants are "combined" than it gives the best results...this is one of the laws of evolution...the mutation rate mustn't be to high...only the best chromosomes are to be selected...in America the mutation rate is quite high because there are people with very different genotypes...and elitism does not appear too often...but entropy is correct in a way...but only if we compare americans with small colectivities (like the Amish...)...not great ones...like countries...

 

[bishwa]

I don't think "geneticaly superior" means having the greatest variety of genes...it means having the "best" genes...

I'd better agree to this.

Moreover, i believe that genetical "superiority" can be applied only between two or more species.eg we "we(homo sapiens)" are genetically superior to the other organisms. But there can never exist superioriy(genetical) between a group of organisms of the same species.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Boy I can't go along with that one. Better than the other animals? Better at what?

Better at surviving? The greatest total biomass on Earth is the bacteria.

There are faster animals and stronger animals (Chimps have much stronger arms than he-men).

We brag that we can fly better than the birds. Oh yeah? When a bird wants to fly it takes off. When you want to fly - have you been through an airline check in lately?

 

[AndersHermansson]

That's a bold statement. If I say that the Americans have one of the lowest average-iq in the world it would have as much validity. Saying that Bush's iq stands for the rest of you is pretty accurate aswell, by your appearant standards.

 

[Shadow]

Despite the science in this, this topic should be moved into Politics and World affairs forum merely so it can sit next to Shonogons arrogant declaration that Americans are Culturally inferior (and he argues within the topic that we are genetically equal which actually is true)
Anyways this topic seems more full of Nationalism than the whole political forum.

No other country has the same level of variety in its gene pool than America. Variety in the gene pool is important for increasing the odds of survival against genetic defect. Therefore, I assert that as a whole, Americans are genetically superior to all others.

That is arrogant. Why don't know go marching around broadway saying you are superior to everyone else? We arent genetically superior. True we have a larger/ possibly better variety but that is balanced out by the fact that you can't just go off with someone these days; there's these things called STD's.

Since the beginning people have basically been defending their own country, not exactly debating except a select few.

 

[Shadow]

FIRST COUSINS FACE LOWER RISK OF HAVING CHILDREN

I also saw this in Discover magazine, I have not read it yet but I have to get to it because it sounds interesting. Sorry to be blunt but even IF, and that is a big IF, that is true, wouldn't you find it weird marrying your first cousin? And even worse- er... reproduceing with them?

 

[Another God]

Originally posted by Shadow
Sorry to be blunt but even IF, and that is a big IF, that is true, wouldn't you find it weird marrying your first cousin? And even worse- er... reproduceing with them?

Probably, but what if you didn't know they were your first cousin?

I don't think its such a big IF. Ever since finding out why it is that 'inbreeding' is dangerous I had always questioned just how risky it actually was.

Its just another odds game, like everything else in life.

 

[Monique]

ACTUALLY, last week or so I saw a documentary about siblings who were put up for adoption through private channels, so the siblings ended up all living in the same area without even ever knowing it..

This guy one day got a call by a social worker who asked him if he knew that he was adopted, which he didn't. She started telling him that his best friend, which he had met in a bar 20 years ago, was his real life brother; that his work-out buddy was his brother; the shocker was that the girl he dated in high-school, who he easily could have married and had children with was his SISTER!

He made a really funny comment, I don't quite remember the exact quote, it was something like that they nowadays joke that they could have had dolphins for babies

 

[Phobos]

I just skimmed this topic...sorry if this has already been pointed out.

I see a lot of emphasis on race (black, white, etc.). However, according to some, there is more genetic diversity WITHIN a race than BETWEEN races. See this link...
http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

(which probably goes back to the comment that Africa has the most diversity)

 

[Meninger]

I wouldn't have used the word "superior." It would have been better if you would have based this superiority into a specific dimension. In not having any proof of your grand claim, one can only assume you're intentions are only to start a useless argument.

Americans are certainly not "superior" in terms of IQ. One can assert that we are not superior in anything else, nor will we ever be. By superior I assume you were referring to potential. In all applications this claim is false.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Originally posted by Phobos
I just skimmed this topic...sorry if this has already been pointed out.

I see a lot of emphasis on race (black, white, etc.). However, according to some, there is more genetic diversity WITHIN a race than BETWEEN races. See this link...
http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

(which probably goes back to the comment that Africa has the most diversity)

And this is supposed to prove?

Standard counterexample. There is more variation in upper body strength between the strongest and weakest men and separately between the strongest and weakest women than there is between the male average and the female average.

Does this prove either
- sexes don't exist, or
- the sexes have the same upper body strength?

 

[Imparcticle]

The only reason Americans do not have a longer life expectancy is because of the high costs of quality food and health care in America. My point is that statisically, Americans should be less prone to genetic disorder (i.e. birth defects, retardation, etc) than any other group of people.

eNtRopY

All we eat in the US is gm food, and food that's been wiped out of what makes it food in the first place (that is, Vitamins).

Less prone to genetic disorder! is there statistical proof of that?

Americans are certainly not "superior" in terms of IQ. One can assert that we are not superior in anything else, nor will we ever be. By superior I assume you were referring to potential. In all applications this claim is false.

True. Americans rank somewhere around #18 in the world for edu. I'm not surprised. The school systems in this country (descipline is the key people! there is a difference between abuse and descipline) are pretty good. I like the fact that teachers don't physically descipline their students...although parents should. Parents should be able to punish their kids very well to enforce honorable descipline in their children. This the only, and the best way to raise children. This way they don't run off into drugs and the sort, and instead stay focused on their education. That's how they raise their kids those top edu. countries (even in schools).
I personally think we're seriously spoiled here (USA). Esp, the kids. Kids in the US don't (in general) have an understanding of how hard life is, so they have less appreciation for the small things in life than people from other (poorer) countries so they stay focused on music, clothes etc. NOT SCHOOL. Free education is not seen as a privilige here. It should be.

Other than that, I LOVE American ways. I think U. American ideals are superior compared to other ideals. It is so amazing how the U. American constitution is made up...so much to admire.

 

[Imparcticle]

No other country has the same level of variety in its gene pool than America. Variety in the gene pool is important for increasing the odds of survival against genetic defect. Therefore, I assert that as a whole, Americans are genetically superior to all others.

eNtRopY

When you say "America" are you referring to the USA? There is North A., there is South A.

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

He is referring to the United States of America. North America and South American are continents. He said country which would leave only the USA left in the equation.

 

[Nereid]

"Superior = best adapted to surviving and producing viable offspring". As it will be less than 3 generations before all current and future anti-biotics become essentially ineffective at treating bacterial infections, genetic predisposition of surviving multiple, recurring bacterial infetions is THE best way to measure superiority. In this respect, sub-Saharan Africans (and their descendants throughout the world) are unquestionably the 'superior' group of homo sapiens. Discuss.

 

[selfAdjoint]

"Superior = best adapted to surviving and producing viable offspring". As it will be less than 3 generations before all current and future anti-biotics become essentially ineffective at treating bacterial infections, genetic predisposition of surviving multiple, recurring bacterial infetions is THE best way to measure superiority. In this respect, sub-Saharan Africans (and their descendants throughout the world) are unquestionably the 'superior' group of homo sapiens. Discuss.

Choice of just one mode of leaving descendants among many is unscientific; just the kind of cherry picking you criticize in the supporters of IQ differences. The only way to see what populations are best at leaving descendents is to wait and see.

 

[Njorl]

I just read earlier today that Dutch people are now taller than Americans. Their average height has increased 5 inches in the last 50 years, making them the tallest in the world. Height does loosely correlate to health in large populations.

The guy who posted about Andorrans outliving Japanese might have been right. There are so few Andorrans that one person dying young might drop the average age significantly.

Njorl