Another "Partial Derivatives in Thermodynamics" Question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the application of partial derivatives in thermodynamics, specifically regarding an equation from Pathria's book. Participants explore the derivation and properties of partial derivatives as they relate to thermodynamic variables.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the first equality in the equation from Pathria's book is derived.
  • Another participant suggests that the triple product rule is being used to establish the relationship between the partial derivatives.
  • A different participant explains that the equality involving pressure comes from the differential form of energy, specifically by setting certain differentials to zero.
  • Further clarification is provided on how the equality involving entropy and energy is derived from the differential expression for entropy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present various interpretations and derivations related to the use of partial derivatives, but there is no consensus on the clarity of the initial question or the derivations provided.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the conditions under which the derivatives are taken may not be explicitly stated, and the discussion relies on the definitions of thermodynamic variables and their interrelations.

conservedcharge
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Hi all,

It seems I haven't completely grasped the use of Partial Derivatives in general; I have seen many discussions here dealing broadly with the same topic, but can't find the answer to my doubt. So, any help would be most welcome:

In Pathria's book (3rd ed.), equation (1.3.11) says:
P = \frac{\left( \frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right )_{N,E} } {\left (\frac{ \partial S}{\partial E} \right)_{N,V}} = - \left( \frac{\partial E}{\partial V} \right)_{N,S}
My question is 2 fold:

1. How is he writing the first equality in the above equation?
2. What properties of partial derivatives are being used here to figure out the correct subscripts on the extreme right in the equation, given the subscripts in \frac{\left( \frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right )_{N,E} } {\left (\frac{ \partial S}{\partial E} \right)_{N,V}}?
 
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conservedcharge said:
1. How is he writing the first equality in the above equation?
2. What properties of partial derivatives are being used here to figure out the correct subscripts on the extreme right in the equation, given the subscripts in \frac{\left( \frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right )_{N,E} } {\left (\frac{ \partial S}{\partial E} \right)_{N,V}}?
He's using the triple product rule
\left(\frac{\partial x}{\partial y}\right)_{z} \left(\frac{\partial y}{\partial z}\right)_{x} \left(\frac{\partial z}{\partial x}\right)_{y} = -1
 
The equality ##P = - \left( \frac{\partial E}{\partial V} \right)_{N,S} ## comes from ##dE = TdS-PdV+\mu dN## by setting dS and dN equal to zero.

The equality ## \frac{\left( \frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right )_{N,E} } {\left (\frac{ \partial S}{\partial E} \right)_{N,V}} = - \left( \frac{\partial E}{\partial V} \right)_{N,S} ## comes from
$$dS=\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right)_{E,N}dV+\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial E}\right)_{V,N}dE+\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial N}\right)_{E,V}dN$$ by setting dN and dS equal to zero.
 
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Fightfish said:
He's using the triple product rule
\left(\frac{\partial x}{\partial y}\right)_{z} \left(\frac{\partial y}{\partial z}\right)_{x} \left(\frac{\partial z}{\partial x}\right)_{y} = -1
Thanks @Fightfish , that helps.
 

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