Another two ships relativity question

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter nearc
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Relativity Ships
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a relativistic scenario involving two identical ships traveling at 0.999C along paths that diverge by 10 degrees. Participants explore the implications of their travel distances and times as perceived by an external observer versus the ships' passengers, with a focus on the calculations and interpretations of relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents calculations showing that while the ships travel 100 light years, they are 17.4 light years apart from each other after their journey, based on their paths and the angle of divergence.
  • Another participant expresses agreement with the logic presented, indicating that the calculations seem correct.
  • A third participant, concerned about accuracy as a teacher, seeks further confirmation and questions whether length contraction needs to be considered in their analysis.
  • A later reply confirms the results and suggests that length contraction is not necessary for the specific comparisons being made, but warns about the complexities introduced by the relativity of simultaneity when discussing perceptions of distance and time between the ships.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the calculations presented, but there is uncertainty regarding the implications of length contraction and the relativity of simultaneity, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of distinguishing between inertial coordinate systems and the perspectives of the ships regarding distance and time, which introduces additional complexity to the discussion.

nearc
Gold Member
Messages
65
Reaction score
6
I wanted to double check my calculations an interpretation of relativity. Thanks in advance.

Two identical ships leave the same point at the same time traveling .999C and travel a 100 light years each but leave on paths that are 10 degrees apart. If the passengers where to compare their time spent traveling to an outside observer they would only show that 4.47 years [1] have passed compared to the 100 years from the external frame of reference. However, since they have traveled 100 light years on their two different vectors the two ships are now 17.4 light years apart [2].

[1] let c = 1 and v = .999, then 100 years * (1-.999^2)^.5 = 4.47 years
[2] sin 5 = opp/hyp = x/100, x = 100 * sin 5 = 8.72, so 5 degrees gives 8.72 light year distance and then 10 degrees would be 17.4 light years distance between the two ships after traveling 100 light years.
 

Attachments

  • two ship triangle.png
    two ship triangle.png
    1.5 KB · Views: 498
Physics news on Phys.org
don't have my calculator here but I think your logic is correct
 
thanks for all who have replied or viewed my question, but can i get a little more confirmation that this is correct? as a teacher i don't want spread misinformation. do i need to clarify anything? do i need to account for length contraction?
 
I get the same results. No need to consider length contraction if you're only a) comparing the time coordinate in an inertial coordinate system in which the ships both have speed 0.999c, with the times measured by the ships, and b) talking about the coordinate distance between the two ships in that inertial coordinate system.

However, you need to be very careful if you start talking about such things as one ship's idea about the distance to the other ship or what time it is on the other ship, because of relativity of simultaneity.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 98 ·
4
Replies
98
Views
9K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K