Antisymmetry Invariant Under Similarity Orthogonal Transforms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around similarity transformations, particularly in the context of antisymmetric matrices and their relationship with orthogonal transformations. Participants seek clarification on the definitions, properties, and implications of these concepts, as well as practical examples and exercises related to the invariance of antisymmetry under orthogonal similarity transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants request a beginner's explanation of similarity transformations and their applications.
  • There is a question about whether all similarity transformations are orthogonal, with some suggesting that they typically are not.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the relationship between antisymmetric and orthogonal matrices, questioning if an antisymmetric matrix can be orthogonal.
  • A participant proposes that if a matrix A is antisymmetric and B is orthogonal, then the transformation $BAB^{-1}$ should maintain the antisymmetry property, inviting others to prove this statement.
  • Another participant seeks examples of matrices that have been "tweaked" through similarity transformations to better understand the concept.
  • A suggestion is made to refer to the Jordan normal form as a resource for understanding similar matrices and their properties.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding similarity transformations and their properties. There is no consensus on the relationship between antisymmetric and orthogonal matrices, and the discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly regarding the proof of invariance under orthogonal similarity transformations.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the definitions and implications of similarity transformations, particularly in relation to orthogonality and antisymmetry. There are also unresolved mathematical steps regarding the proof of invariance of antisymmetry under orthogonal transformations.

ognik
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Hi - the text is very brief on similarity transforms and wiki etc. a bit beyond where I am. In fact I think I am muddling a few things up, so I have a few questions around this topic please:
1) I'd appreciate a 'beginners' explanation of similarity transforms, what they really are and what they are most useful for?
2) Are all similarity transforms not orthogonal?
3) I think that an antisymetric matrix cannot be orthogonal, but I get the impression they are related by more than the '-' sign?
4) Finally an exercise where I'd appreciate a starter tip - if not already included in the answers above:"Show that the property of antisymetry is invariant under orthogonal similarity transformations" . All help much appreciated :-)
 
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ognik said:
Hi - the text is very brief on similarity transforms and wiki etc. a bit beyond where I am. In fact I think I am muddling a few things up, so I have a few questions around this topic please:
1) I'd appreciate a 'beginners' explanation of similarity transforms, what they really are and what they are most useful for?
2) Are all similarity transforms not orthogonal?
3) I think that an antisymetric matrix cannot be orthogonal, but I get the impression they are related by more than the '-' sign?
4) Finally an exercise where I'd appreciate a starter tip - if not already included in the answers above:"Show that the property of antisymetry is invariant under orthogonal similarity transformations" . All help much appreciated :-)

Hey ognik!

1) A similarity transformation of a matrix A, is where you first apply some matrix to A and afterwards "undo" the effect of that matrix by applying its inverse.
A different name for it is conjugation.

It's one of the basic principles to solve many puzzles.
Take for instance Rubik's cube.
A conjugate move is one of the form $XYX^{-1}$. It is also called a "setup move".
That is, $X^{-1}$ is the setup for a move $Y$. Afterwards the setup move is reversed, leaving only the effect of $Y$ that has been tweaked a bit.

Two matrices are called similar if there is a similarity transformation that transforms the one into the other.
And here's where to power of similarity manifests: most properties of those similar matrices are identical.
For instance, they have the same determinant, the same eigenvalues, the same trace, and so on.2) A similarity transform is typically not orthogonal - it's not even a matrix transform. It's a transformation that consists of 2 matrices: one that is applied before, and its inverse that is applied after.

Of course a similarity transform can be built from an orthogonal matrix.3) Pick $$(^{0\ -1}_{1\ \phantom{-}0})$$.
Is it antisymmetric? Is it orthogonal?4) Suppose A is antisymmetric and B is orthogonal. Then $BAB^{-1}$ is such a similarity transformation.
In index notation it is:
$$(bab^{-1})_{ij} = \sum_{k,l} b_{ik}a_{kl}b^{-1}_{lj}$$
Can you prove that it is equal to:
$$-(bab^{-1})_{ji}$$
? (Wondering)
 
Great, thanks!
1) Very clear. Do you perhaps have a link to an example where a matrix has been tweaked (usefully), so I can sit and contemplate it a bit?
2) Thanks, clear.
3) OK, I had read the problem as A being both antisymetric AND Orthogonal, that 'de-confuses' both 3) and 4) thanks.
Regards
 

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