Apply the Legendre Transformation to the Entropy S as a function of E

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around applying the Legendre Transformation to the entropy S as a function of energy E, with a focus on transitioning from S(T,V,N) to S(E,V,N) and exploring the Sackur-Tetrode equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the representation of the differential of entropy and the need to express it in terms of different independent parameters. There is a focus on how to perform the Legendre transformation and the implications for finding a new potential.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering guidance on how to approach the transformation and the representation of differentials. There is a sense of progress as some participants express confidence in their understanding following the suggestions provided.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of thermodynamic potentials and the relationships between different variables, with an emphasis on the constraints of the problem and the specific forms of differentials involved.

GravityX
Messages
19
Reaction score
1
Homework Statement
Apply Legendre Transformation to Entropy
Relevant Equations
##g(m)=f(x(m))-m*x(m)## and ##x(m)=(f')^-1(m)##
Hi,

Unfortunately I am not getting anywhere with task three, I don't know exactly what to show

Bildschirmfoto 2022-11-28 um 16.30.54.png

Shall I now show that from ##S(T,V,N)## using Legendre I then get ##S(E,V,N)## and thus obtain the Sackur-Tetrode equation?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You should rather think in terms of differentials. The "natural independent parameters" for ##S## are ##(E,V,N)##. Now you want to get another potential with the "natural independent parameters" ##(T,V,N)##. So first write down the differential ##\mathrm{d} S## in terms of ##(E,V,N)## and then think about, how to Legendre transform to a new potential with the other set of independent parameters.
 
Thanks vanhees71 for your help 👍

I have now represented ##ds## as follows

$$ds=\frac{\partial S}{\partial E}dE+\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}dV+\frac{\partial S}{\partial N}dN$$

$$ds=\frac{1}{T}dE+\frac{P}{T}dV-\frac{\mu }{T}dN$$

Now I would just have to get rid of the ##dE## or rather I would have to express ##dE## with the help of ##dT##, ##dV##, ##dN##, right?
 
Write it in the form of ##\mathrm{d} E=...## then find a new potential, ##F## ("free energy"), such that instead of a differnetial with ##\mathrm{d} s##, ##\mathrm{d} V## and ##\mathrm{d}N## you get one with ##\mathrm{d} T##, ##\mathrm{d}V## and ##\mathrm{d}V##. Note that
$$\mathrm{d}(Ts)=s \mathrm{d} T + T \mathrm{d} s!$$
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: GravityX
Thanks for your help vanhees71 👍 I think I got it now 😀
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
5K
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
5K
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
13K