jaap de vries said:
I think your confused my friend I am from the Netherlands and I think we have a different understanding about tolerance.
First Egypt is NOT a democracy neither does it have free speech. Their main TV host just called for a boycott on Dutch products because one person in the Netherlands made a movie relating Islam with Terrorism. Also a Dutch children's movie was refused for showing at a festival held in Egypt. A not so smart move from a country that relies heavily on European Tourism. Or was this just a measure to please the Islamic radical for a short moment?
The NDP has governed since 1978, or do you believe that running four consecutive times for 6 year term UNOPPOSED is democracy.
Torturing of prisoners is also not uncommon practice by the SSIS [1-3], in fact Egypt is one of the most popular countries for US' special rendition program.
Sorry to come down on you a little hard but I have this discussion more often with people from Egypt and they seem to have a skew view on their "Great Nation" with its dictator Mubarak.
Since you are on a western site hear you might hear something else for a change.
it's important to rationally separate international Media and Government actions from the way that life is lived on the ground by people. when someone who actually lives in these countries answers questions about what it's like for a foreigner to travel there, we should ask more questions to get at the truth, if that's what is truly sought. if there are debates about it, there must be a misconception somewhere, as in the case of the answers to "If I go to some Arab country like Iran or Saudi Arab, will they put me in jail for doing anything that is not allowed in their religion (not necessarily against)?" can the question be answered objectively? yes. other extraneous details only reflect on other cultural anxieties.
for example: it's no more my fault that paris hilton made a sex tape 9 years ago than it is that george bush failed to send aid to hurricane victims in louisiana 3 years ago. nor is it untrue that in my neighborhood you might be treated like royalty because you're from denmark, but 300 miles south of here you'd probably have a hard time being treated with even a small amount of respect because a lot of those people don't like any foreigners whatsoever. countries are not composed of machines and pins stuck in a map. they are full of actual people and regional cultures based on universally understandable things like climate, cuisine, history, religion, and nature.
what my government, newscasters, talk show hosts, athletes, musicians, and movie makers do has nothing to do with me or almost anyone I've ever MET, let alone know. i could tell you that something were true in my country or region and it would be true, even if it sounded contrary to what you've learned through the world of publicized international incidents...aka government/media soap operas.
i just want to point that out. we sit around and talk about what a repressed people we have there in the middle east now that we've put the magnifying glass up to them because of a war. that's not really fair. no one there knew they were going to be required to instantly throw the status quo out and embrace something new and unknown. now here they are, with their different ways of life and education systems, religions, and governmental traditions.
it's ALL different and too many of us want it to be instantly the same and totally symbiotic with the bigger animal, the WEST. that's not going to happen overnight!
i would think that we shouldn't rush to throw our ways of life down upon them anyway...don't use the U.S. as the model, for example, as if the war gives us some noble "purpose" or "cultural validation". we have more people in prison than any other nation in the world. there are a lot of internal problems here and they're getting worse all the time, and they're the historically worst kind of problems for any nation that wants to stay intact and relatively free. classic problems like corruption and greed at the highest levels of government.
"the internal combustion engine is dead!"
