Area of A Box Containing Only One Point

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the largest area of a rectangular box that can contain only a single point at the origin within a grid of points spaced at intervals (a,b). The scope includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning regarding the properties of such a box, including its orientation and the implications of lattice points.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the largest box with sides parallel to the axes has an area of A = 4ab.
  • Another participant suggests that tilting the box while ensuring it touches points on the line x = a leads to the same area of A = 4ab, regardless of the tilt.
  • A different viewpoint indicates that a long and skinny box passing between points on the line x = a also results in an area of A = 4ab.
  • Some participants discuss the assumption of using a spacing of (1,1) for simplification, with a scaling factor applied later.
  • There is a suggestion that a lattice point must be present on every side of the box to prevent expansion, and that the angle of rotation could be determined through this reasoning.
  • A participant references Pick's theorem but later clarifies that it does not apply due to the vertices not aligning with grid points for tilted cases.
  • Another participant introduces Minkowski's theorem on convex bodies as a relevant concept, indicating a relationship between volume and lattice points.
  • One participant raises a conceptual challenge regarding the nature of a point and the impossibility of a box containing only one theoretical geometry point, suggesting a need for clarity on whether borders can touch other points.
  • A later reply clarifies that while borders can touch other points, only the origin is allowed inside the box.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the properties of the box and its area, with some agreeing on the area calculations while others raise conceptual challenges. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the applicability of certain theorems and the implications of box orientation.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding assumptions about the nature of points and the definition of the box's boundaries. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the implications of tilting the box and the conditions under which certain theorems may apply.

marcusl
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Imagine a rectangular grid of points with spacing (a,b) along the x and y directions, respectively, starting at the origin and filling all four quadrants. Center a rectangular box on the origin. The question is: what is the box of largest area that contains only the single point at the origin? The sides of the box can just touch other points, but no other point can be in its interior.

Trying some cases, I find:
a) trivially, the largest box whose sides are parallel to x and y has area A = 4ab.
b) if the box is tilted so its end touches a point on the line x = a (and, of course, the other end touches the mirror symmetric point at x = -a), the largest area is A = 4ab regardless of tilt.
c) if the box is long and skinny so it passes between two of the points located on the line x=a (and corresponding points on x=-a), A=4ab.

Well it looks like there's a pattern! Does anyone know of a general theorem?

This problem came up in the context of synthetic aperture radar imaging.
 
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To start, I imagine you can assume the spacing is (1,1) and just scale the answer by a factor of ab at the end
 
Clearly there should be a lattice point on every side of the box, otherwise you'd be able to expand it more. Think about what happens when you rotate the box and you should be able to decide what angle it should be at too. That should be enough information I think...
 
Office_Shredder said:
To start, I imagine you can assume the spacing is (1,1) and just scale the answer by a factor of ab at the end
Thanks. I had thought of doing this, but I didn't see any gains.

Xevarion said:
Clearly there should be a lattice point on every side of the box, otherwise you'd be able to expand it more. Think about what happens when you rotate the box and you should be able to decide what angle it should be at too. That should be enough information I think...
Yes, that works for each case (box extending to a point on x=+/-a, +/-2a, etc.). Was wondering if there is a general theorem at play.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pick's_theorem
 
EDIT: Revised message.

This is a beautiful result, but does not apply because the vertices do not fall on grid points for the case I'm considering (at least for any tilt angles except 0 and pi/2).
 
Last edited:
This follows easily from Minkowski's theorem on convex bodies: Given a lattice L in R^n with a fundamental parallelotope of volume V, then any convex, symmetric region in R^n with volume >4V contains a nonzero point of the lattice.
 
Last edited:
That's perfect! Thank you so much.
 
Refering to the original simple question; you need to decide if you want to include the border or only the interior of the box.

No single box would contain only one theoretical geometry point, since a point has no size. Opposite sides of a box could never be one point distance apart. a side will always have infinitely points between itself and the reference point to be enclosed in the box.

... so, you have your choice of either 1 or 9. (there is a third choice, but not certain if you want that one).
 
  • #10
Hi s-p,

Sorry if my original post wasn't clear. The borders can touch other points but only one point (the origin) is allowed inside.
 

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