Avogadro's Law & Composition of Air: A Doubt/Misconception

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of Avogadro's Law in the context of gas mixtures, specifically addressing misconceptions about gas volumes and the composition of air. Participants explore the implications of gas behavior when a partition is removed and how this relates to the percentages of different gases in a mixture.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how Avogadro's Law applies when two gases occupy different volumes in a container and questions if this contradicts the law.
  • Another participant clarifies that the term "volume occupied by a gas" refers to its partial volume in a mixture, suggesting that in a 5-liter volume of air, nitrogen and oxygen occupy different partial volumes.
  • Several participants discuss the concept of partial pressure, indicating that under the same conditions, gases in a mixture can be treated separately using their respective partial pressures to determine the number of molecules.
  • There is a question raised about how gases can occupy the same total volume while having different volume compositions, leading to further exploration of the concept of gas mixtures.
  • One participant mentions a personal interpretation of volume percentages as equivalent to mole percentages, indicating a potential misunderstanding of the terminology used in gas composition.
  • A hypothetical scenario is presented involving a movable piston to illustrate how gases mix and occupy the entire volume while maintaining their initial partial pressures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of gas volumes and compositions in mixtures. Multiple competing views remain regarding the application of Avogadro's Law and the terminology used to describe gas percentages.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of volume and pressure in gas mixtures, as well as the implications of using partial pressures in calculations. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of gas behavior under different conditions.

UchihaClan13
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Guys I have a doubt or rather a misconception
It is as follows:
Consider a container with a partition having a gas A occupying 2/3rd of the volume and gas B occupying 1/3 rd of the volume
Now suppose we remove the partition .As a result,gas A will occupy the whole volume of the container and gas B will also occupy the whole volume of the container(since the gas molecules are far apart and it doesn't matter if molecules of different gases collide as the size of the molecules is considered negligible)
Now gas A and gas B should not contain the same number of molecules(since gas A occupied more space and gas B less)
But doesn't this contradict avogadro's law
That equal volumes of gases will contain an equal number of molecules??
And how will you explain the composition of air by this way
Like if the amount of air present in a room is say 5 litres
The amount of nitrogen and oxygen should also be 5 litres (the volume of the room)
So how does the composition of air (nitrogen 78% by volume and oxygen 21% by volume make sense??)
I might have overlooked some things
But I would be extremely grateful if those things are brought to my notice
Help is much appreciated!:)
 
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What is meant by "the volume occupied by a gas" is the partial volume. If you have 5 l of air, the volume of nitrogen is 3.9 l and the volume of oxygen is 1.1 l.
 
Avogadros law states that gasses occupy the same volume under the same pressure. In the case of mixtures you have to use partial pressure, instead.
In your example partial pressure of A is ##p_A=2/3 p## and of B is ##p_B=1/3 p##. Then ##n_A=p_AV/RT## and ##n_b=p_BV/RT##.
 
But if there is a container with a capacity of 5 litres which has air In it
Won't nitrogen and oxygen being gases occupy the entire space of 5 litres(although their amounts/molar concentrations)might be different
 
DrDu said:
Avogadros law states that gasses occupy the same volume under the same pressure. In the case of mixtures you have to use partial pressure, instead.
In your example partial pressure of A is pA=2/3pp_A=2/3 p and of B is pB=1/3pp_B=1/3 p. Then nA=pAV/RTn_A=p_AV/RT and nb=pBV/RTn_b=p_BV/RT.
That's fine
But my doubt is if both nitrogen and oxygen are able to occupy 5 litres so how is their volume composition different??
 
I've never understood why the terminology 79% by volume and 21% by volume is used, but, whenever I see it, I automatically substitute in my mind the words "mole percentage."
 
Imagine a cylinder with a thin, movable piston, separating both gases. One gas occupies some volume, the other occupies some other volume (as the piston can move pressures are identical on both sides). Now, remove the piston. Gases mix, and their partial pressures become lower than they were before, each one occupies whole volume now - but as these are in many aspects equivalent systems, for many applications we can still report the situation as if both gases occupied their initial volumes.
 

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