Black hole singularty definable In 3D space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of black hole singularities and whether they can be defined within a three-dimensional framework. Participants explore the implications of singularities on our understanding of space and dimensions, questioning the physicality of singularities and the limitations of current theories in describing such regions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that since a black hole's center is defined as a singularity where space-time collapses, it may not be possible to define this point in traditional 3D coordinates.
  • Others argue that the term "singularity" is often misunderstood, suggesting it does not refer to a physical point but rather a mathematical construct where conventional physics fails to provide meaningful results.
  • One participant references a Wikipedia statement indicating that normal spacetime laws do not apply within a singularity, leading to the suggestion that such regions cannot be fully described in three dimensions.
  • Another participant counters that the inability to describe singularities does not imply they cannot exist in a 3D framework, suggesting a need for a more accurate theory of gravity to understand these regions better.
  • Further clarification is provided that taking singularities as physical entities is a misunderstanding, reinforcing the idea that they are mathematical constructs rather than tangible points in space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the physicality of singularities and their implications for dimensionality, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of singularities and the unresolved nature of what occurs within these regions, as well as the need for more advanced theories to fully describe gravitational phenomena.

nospoon2016
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Since the center of a black hole is defined as a singularity and space-time collapses at that point (assumption) is it possible to define this point in 3D coordinates? In other words, is it possible that our universe can not be described as a 3D space but rather as a space with 2.99... dimensions?
 
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nospoon2016 said:
Since the center of a black hole is defined as a singularity and space-time collapses at that point (assumption) is it possible to define this point in 3D coordinates? In other words, is it possible that our universe can not be described as a 3D space but rather as a space with 2.99... dimensions?
You are making the mistake of thinking that "singularity" is physical. It is not. In the context of physics "singularity" generally mean "the place where the math mode gives non-physical results and thus does not actually tells us what is going on".
 
I wondered about this because the following is stated on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity : "The laws of normal spacetime could not exist within a singularity" and therefore this suggest there is no coordinate system defined at that point/region, or if you like no 'normal' coordinate system. If so such region simply cannot be defined in our known 3 dimensions then our universe is not fully definable in 3D.
 
nospoon2016 said:
I wondered about this because the following is stated on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity : "The laws of normal spacetime could not exist within a singularity" and therefore this suggest there is no coordinate system defined at that point/region, or if you like no 'normal' coordinate system. If so such region simply cannot be defined in our known 3 dimensions then our universe is not fully definable in 3D.
Well, no. It just means you have to draw a little circle around that point, say, "Here be dragons!" and then never try to infer anything about the universe by using what goes on inside that point. We would need a more accurate theory of gravity to say what does happen inside that region.
 
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nospoon2016 said:
I wondered about this because the following is stated on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_singularity : "The laws of normal spacetime could not exist within a singularity" and therefore this suggest ...
no, it does not suggest anything, really, because that would be making the same mistake you are making of taking "singularity" to be physical. As Chalnoth has also now pointed out to you, you cannot legitimately do that.
 

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