Boiling point and connection distance of the elements

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the boiling points and connection distances of hydrogen halides (HF, HCl, HBr, HI), exploring the factors influencing these properties, including atomic mass, bonding types, and molecular interactions. The scope includes conceptual understanding and homework-related inquiries.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that HF exhibits hydrogen bonding, while the others form ionic links, which is challenged by another participant who suggests they form covalent bonds instead.
  • There is a claim that the lower the atomic mass correlates with a higher boiling point, which is contested by participants who argue this does not fit the data well.
  • Questions are raised about how electronegativity and bond polarity of halogens change down the group, indicating a need for deeper exploration of these concepts.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about their understanding of hydrogen bonding and seek additional resources for clarification.
  • A suggestion is made to approach the problem from a particle-level description to better understand the behavior of the molecules involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on the nature of bonding in hydrogen halides and the relationship between atomic mass and boiling point. There is no consensus on the explanations provided, and several participants indicate uncertainty about their understanding of the concepts discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note ambiguities in the explanations regarding hydrogen bonding and the definitions of bonding types, indicating a lack of clarity in the foundational concepts being discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

Students studying chemistry, particularly those focusing on molecular properties and bonding theories, may find this discussion relevant.

José Ricardo
Messages
92
Reaction score
5

Homework Statement


Explain the following order of the boiling point (° C)

HF (19.5)> HCl (-85.1) <HBr (-66.8) <HI (-35.4)

b) Explain the following order of connection distance (pm):

HF (92) <HCl (127) <HBr (141) <HI (161)

Homework Equations


xxx

The Attempt at a Solution


a) HF does hydrogen bond, and the others make ionic linking.
b) The lower the atomic mass, the higher the boiling point
 
Physics news on Phys.org
José Ricardo said:
The lower the atomic mass, the higher the boiling point
This statement are wrong. (How?)
And the others make covalent linking, not ionic (generally means electrovalent in some texts)

José Ricardo said:
HF does hydrogen bond
You mean the intermolecular one, that too in an aqueous solution
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: José Ricardo
How does the electronegativity of the halogens & hence the H-X bond polarity change down the group?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: José Ricardo
José Ricardo said:
HF (19.5)> HCl (-85.1) <HBr (-66.8) <HI (-35.4)b) The lower the atomic mass, the higher the boiling point
Does not constitute an explanation, nor fits the data very well!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: José Ricardo and baldbrain
Also, the statement
José Ricardo said:
HF does hydrogen bond, and the others make ionic linking.
makes it a bit ambiguous to know whether you've understood the concept of hydrogen bonding
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: José Ricardo
baldbrain said:
This statement are wrong. (How?)
And the others make covalent linking, not ionic (generally means electrovalent in some texts)You mean the intermolecular one, that too in an aqueous solution

Yes, you're right! Ionic linkings are stronger! The best example is our kitchen salt, which your trying to separate stove, you can't because the boiling point of the NaCl is 900 °C and only in industries is possible to separate the sodium from the chlorine.

baldbrain said:
How does the electronegativity of the halogens & hence the H-X bond polarity change down the group?

Yes, I made a mistake.

epenguin said:
Does not constitute an explanation, nor fits the data very well!

Yes, I don't know how to do this question.

baldbrain said:
Also, the statement

makes it a bit ambiguous to know whether you've understood the concept of hydrogen bonding

I didn't even internalized this subject. Could you recommend me a video lesson about this subject?
 
José Ricardo said:
Could you recommend me a video lesson about this subject?
To begin with, watch this:
 
@José Ricardo After watching that, you can guess that these molecules get 'associated' (get closer together due to attractions) with each other. Think, how will that affect the boiling point?
 
I find that working out answers to questions like these are best done by starting with a particle level description (i.e., what the atoms or molecules are doing). An excellent written source for that is Richard Feynman's Atoms in Motion.

There are video's of Feynman informally talking about much of the material, like this and this. I find the text, though, more useful.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: baldbrain

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
13K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
6K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
30K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
8K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
10K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K