Brayton Cycle modelling - optimum system design

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around modeling the Brayton cycle in a gas turbine for electricity generation. Participants explore how to determine the specifications needed for a gas turbine to meet a building's daily electricity load, including the relationship between the work output of the turbine and the requirements of the generator.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a backwards modeling approach to determine the specifications of the generator based on the electricity demand and the work output of the gas turbine.
  • Another participant agrees that the electrical load is determined by the building's power consumption and notes that the turbine's total power output includes the power input for the compressor and the generator.
  • A request is made for a schematic of the Brayton cycle that includes relevant equations for temperature, pressure, efficiency, work done, and power.
  • Concerns are raised about quantifying energy losses between the turbine's work output and the generator's requirements, particularly in relation to torque needed to meet a specified load.
  • Participants discuss the need to calculate efficiencies and compression ratios to select an appropriate gas turbine model.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to model the system and understand the relationships between various components, but there are differing views on the specifics of energy losses and how to quantify them. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact equations and methods to use.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the energy losses in the cycle and how to relate the work done by the turbine to the generator's requirements. There is also a lack of consensus on the best approach to model these relationships and the necessary equations.

A87
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Hi

I am trying to model the Brayton cycle in a gas turbine that is used for electricity generation.
My main aim is to be able to fully power the x amount of daily electricity load of a building using this machine.
In order to do this, is it correct to do a backwards model and find what specifications my generator must have that meet my power demand and match that with the work outout of the gas turbine.
If so must I then equate the work required by the generator (using a product specification) with the work done by the turbine (include the losses as well). Can I then equate this with the work done by the compressor (and include the efficiencies) - I need to show what my work done and efficiencies are at each point of the cycle.


I think I will then be able to find the optimum size of the gas turbine required to generate the torque required to rotate the electricity generator?

Please let me know if my thinking is correct and if anybody can post the equations for work done and efficiency at each point of the cycle please.



Thanks
 
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A87:
I think your outlined approach is roughly correct. The electrical load will be determined by the anticipated power consumption requirements for the building. The generator which is sized to supply the power will have certain inherent losses in converting the mechanical power input to electrical output. Remember, the turbine's total power output is the sum of the compressor section's power input plus the required power input for the generator.
 
thanks!

I have not been able to find a schematic of the brayton cycle with all the necessary equations. It would be extremely useful for me if you could help me construct one with the relevant equations of Temp, Pressure, efficiency, work done, power and efficiency.

All I currently have is:

Heat into combustor - Q = m(h3-h1) h= entropy
Work out of Turbine - Wt = m(h3-h4)
Work into compressor - Wc = m(h1-h2)


any ideas about the energy losses between the work out of turbine and the electrical generator? - what is the relationship between the gas turbine rotation (work done) and what is experienced by the generator.
 
haha thanks for the sarcasm SteamKing :P

1) I am working with gas turbines for power generation and not thrust generation.
2) I was basically asking for the main losses within the cycle and how to quantify these losses
3) The reason being is because I then need to calculate how much torque my turbine must supply my generator to meet a 500kW peak load. Therefore if I can know the work done at the compressor and turbine and then find the efficiencies of the parts and the system as a whole and what the compression ratio is I can then choose what make/model of gas turbine I need !

Cheers
 

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