Bringing the particles together

  • Thread starter Thread starter shehan1
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Particles
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a fusion reaction involving hydrogen and deuterium, where the nuclei combine to form helium and a gamma ray. The original poster presents a problem that requires calculating the total kinetic energy of the particles just before they touch, considering their initial kinetic energies and the forces at play.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the conservation of energy, questioning the relevance of rest energies in the context of kinetic energy calculations. There is discussion about the potential energy changes due to the coulomb force as the particles approach each other.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the energy considerations before and after the fusion reaction, while others have raised questions about how to account for the energy of the photon and the implications of massless particles in the energy equations. The conversation reflects a mix of interpretations and approaches without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

The original poster mentions that the homework is ahead of the classwork, indicating potential gaps in understanding the material. There is also a note about the need for significant figures in calculations, which may affect the precision of the results.

shehan1
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
1.This is all the given information:

In a fusion reaction, the nuclei of two atoms join to form a single atom of a different element. In such a reaction, a fraction of the rest energy of the original atoms is converted to kinetic energy of the reaction products. A fusion reaction that occurs in the Sun converts hydrogen to helium. Since electrons are not involved in the reaction, we focus on the nuclei.

Hydrogen and deuterium (heavy hydrogen) can react to form helium plus a high-energy photon called a gamma ray:




Objects involved in the reaction: Particle # of protons # of neutrons Charge Rest Mass (atomic mass units)
1H (proton) 1 0 +e 1.0073
2H (deuterium) 1 1 +e 2.0136
3He (helium) 2 1 +2e 3.0155
gamma ray 0 0 0 0

Although in most problems you solve in this course you should use values of constants rounded to 2 or 3 significant figures, in this problem you must keep at least 5 significant figures throughout your calculation. Problems involving mass changes require many significant figures because the changes in mass are small compared to the total mass. In this problem you must use the following values of constants, accurate to 5 significant figures:

Constant Value to 5 significant figures
c (speed of light) 2.9979e8 m/s
e (charge of a proton) 1.6022e-19 coulomb
atomic mass unit 1.6605e-27 kg
8.9875e9 N·m2 /C2

This is the question:

The deuterium nucleus starts out with a kinetic energy of 8.4e-14 joules, and the proton starts out with a kinetic energy of 1.67e-13 joules. The radius of a proton is 0.9e-15 m; assume that if the particles touch, the distance between their centers will be twice that. What will be the total kinetic energy of both particles an instant before they touch?



3. I tried just adding the two kinetic energies it was wrong. My teacher gives homework that's ahead of the classwork so i don't really know what to do or what equation to use.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The total energy remains the same. Since the fusion reaction hasn't taken place, I would say the rest energies aren't important...also because the kinetic energy is defined as the total relativistic energy minus the rest energy.

So what kinds of energy changes could there be? Since they've gotten closer, they've lost gravitational potential, but that was minuscule anyway.

There is another conservative force, the coulomb force, that will make these ~point charges have a higher potential energy when they are closer together (because they are oppositely charged, pushing them together requires work, and that means losing kinetic energy but gaining potential).

The proton (which has a higher given KE), is at about 1 MeV, so I would say it's reasonably safe to disregard any relativistic effects anyway (then why supply c at all?).

It looks to me like the question is just K(tot)=K(deu, i) + K(pro, i) - U(elec)
 
Thanks a lot that gave me the right answer.
 
How would i then answer this part:

What is the kinetic energy of the reaction products (helium nucleus plus photon)?


I know how to solve the rest of the problem other than those two parts.
 
Well then you need to look at the total energy before and after.

K(i)=K(deu,i)+K(pro,i)
But also there was energy in the masses:
E(i)=E(deu, rest) +E(pro, rest)
I assume they brought the particles together from infinity because there was no electrical potential energy mentioned in the problem initially so your TOTAL INITIAL ENERGY:

K(i)+E(i)

Then your energy after would involve the energy of a photon, the kinetic energy and rest energy of the helium and heat and nuclear binding forces. I assume the problem disregards heat and nuclear binding forces.

I wonder if you'll encounter a problem in solving that second part for this reason: a photon doesn't really have "kinetic energy" as it is massless, but it DOES have energy. Thus, you can't just equate K(i)+E(i)=K(He, f)+E(He, rest)...because really the right-hand-side also has the energy of the photon. The energy of the photon is E=hv (v for frequency), but v=c/λ (λ wavelength)...you know neither the frequency or the wavelength. But maybe the question's fine with you disregarding that??
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
Replies
1
Views
11K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
14K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
15K