News Bush as bad as bin Laden according to Canada

[fourier jr]

Canadians believe U.S. President George W. Bush is almost as great a threat to our national security as Osama bin Laden, according to a government opinion poll obtained by the National Post.

http://www.canada.com/saskatoon/starphoenix/news/national/story.html?id=ee0db970-7505-416a-b61b-fd1c07e368c0

this is a bit of an overreaction I think. the US government has done everything the Bush government has done & more (like Kennedy & vietnam). it's only now that people are paying more attention.

 

[Smurf]

almost? just almost?

 

[SOS2008]

Oh yea, a Bush-bashing thread!

Here's a guy who couldn't even manage his own life, and yet he is the head of the most powerful nation in the world. Just the invasion of Iraq alone has been an ongoing fiasco. If the memos about an attack on the WTC were ignored, or Flight 93 was actually shot down, or the intelligence about terrorist connections and/or WMD in Iraq were "fixed," or the situation in Iraq has been misjudged--Not only have these things been bungled, but IMO at least some of it has involved a cover-up. Yes, incompetence + belligerence = menace, and Dubya, et al, are a menace to everyone, including our neighbors, and the American people (sound familiar?).

 

[Pengwuino]

lol why would bin laden give a crap about Canada :D

And yah, go at it SOS, go sing the party line

 

[SOS2008]

lol why would bin laden give a crap about Canada :D

And yah, go at it SOS, go sing the party line

I'm an Independent with plenty of criticism for both parties -- and maybe you missed the thread about all the good things Bush has done. Please feel free to share.

 

[NateTG]

Duh!

Well, US Foreign policy rather than Bush in particular. Seems pretty obvious to me. I'm surprised that it got beaten out by international organized crime.

 

[Pengwuino]

I'm an Independent with plenty of criticism for both parties -- and maybe you missed the thread about all the good things Bush has done. Please feel free to share.

I MUST have missed THAT lol. I would remember something like that. Kind of like seeing UFO's... ur not sure what ur seeing, no one will believe you saw it, and I am skeptical as to if it exists in the first place

 

[Art]

I MUST have missed THAT lol. I would remember something like that. Kind of like seeing UFO's... ur not sure what ur seeing, no one will believe you saw it, and I am skeptical as to if it exists in the first place

I stood up for Bush in an argument the other day; Somebody said he wasn't fit to eat with pigs but I said he was

 

[klusener]

you traitor! How could you?

 

[Art]

lol why would bin laden give a crap about Canada :D

Precisely he doesn't. Here's an interview with him where he explains why he does give a crap about America http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html

 

[klusener]

interesting read...

 

[Informal Logic]

interesting read...

Too bad Bush and his "advisors" haven not read it. No need to ask what is at the root of terrorism. It is made very clear. Why not address these simple issues, rather than plot about how to spread democracy with record deficit spending?

Many Americans wanted to immigrate to Canada after the 2004 election, probably with hopes of being safe from all this madness.

 

[Pengwuino]

Too bad Bush and his "advisors" haven not read it. No need to ask what is at the root of terrorism. It is made very clear. Why not address these simple issues, rather than plot about how to spread democracy with record deficit spending?

Many Americans wanted to immigrate to Canada after the 2004 election, probably with hopes of being safe from all this madness.

lol "simple"! Oh yes, terrorism and national defense is a simple matter!


And what's with these "journalists". The articles mainly about Canada's lack of prepration for anything and the title and this thread is about Bush.

The Americans that wanted to immigrate to Canada were the draft-dodgers, the hypocrits, and the rich in America that go out and burn US flags and act like traitors (or in SOME cases, actually fit the definition of traitor to a T). None of them ever actually lived up to their cry-baby tactics and left however.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Well, Penguino, I would be gone already if I could. And blind patriotism like yours is exactly why. But in my case, I had to make a choice between family and country.

But I considered leaving the ultimate act of patriotism. What would you prefer; a civil war?

 

[Pengwuino]

What, sensible journalism is considered blind patriotism?

And yes, i can see why you would htink leaving is the ultimate act of patriotism, pff! Thats like the ultimate act of law enforcement would to be evacuate a city and leave the criminals alone. But i can see why you would call that patriotism when you somehow imply that fighting against the US or supporting enemies etc etc is patriotic.

 

[NateTG]

Well, Penguino, I would be gone already if I could. And blind patriotism like yours is exactly why. But in my case, I had to make a choice between family and country.

I can handle patriotism. It's the ignorance, jingoism, fear mongering, and xenophobia that tick me off.

 

[Smurf]

Here's a guy who couldn't even manage his own life, and yet he is the head of the most powerful nation in the world.

Isn't that what makes America so great? You always get a second chance? Anyone can become president? blah blah blah, all that American dream jazz.

 

[Pengwuino]

Isn't that what makes America so great? You always get a second chance? Anyone can become president? blah blah blah, all that American dream jazz.

Yah, hell, look at John Kerry. Dumb as a brick (ha, and can't see he's not because we alllll have been watchen the news lately ;)) and he's a millionaire (ok wait... he married into it, nevermind) and made it to the presidential election.

 

[Art]

Isn't that what makes America so great? You always get a second chance? Anyone can become president? blah blah blah, all that American dream jazz.

As an obvious recipient of the benefits of the liberal 'affirmative action' policy to help the mentally challenged you would think Bush would be more liberal in his views.

 

[SOS2008]

lol "simple"! Oh yes, terrorism and national defense is a simple matter!


And what's with these "journalists". The articles mainly about Canada's lack of prepration for anything and the title and this thread is about Bush.

The Americans that wanted to immigrate to Canada were the draft-dodgers, the hypocrits, and the rich in America that go out and burn US flags and act like traitors (or in SOME cases, actually fit the definition of traitor to a T). None of them ever actually lived up to their cry-baby tactics and left however.

Actually "terrorism and national defense" are that easy, but you have fallen for the propaganda of the Bush regime, and ignore information straight from Bin Laden's mouth just like they do (except with Dubya I'm not sure how much is ineptitude and how much is lying--both are disgusting).

Americans who want to immigrate to Canada want freedom and democracy (not a Police State where the White House controls everything), oh yes, and to escape ignorance. If the "blue" states split and became part of Canada, the "red" states would become a third-world country (think about it), so maybe they should be nice to us, and all the Christians should pray that never happens. As for patriotism, I kick neocon a** every chance I get because I love my country.

 

[SOS2008]

Isn't that what makes America so great? You always get a second chance? Anyone can become president? blah blah blah, all that American dream jazz.

A clarification then... What makes America great is that people are supposed to have a chance for a better life based on things like merit, hard work, ethics -- you know, all the "values" people claim to care so much about.

Yah, hell, look at John Kerry. Dumb as a brick (ha, and can't see he's not because we alllll have been watchen the news lately ;)) and he's a millionaire (ok wait... he married into it, nevermind) and made it to the presidential election.

As usual I must ask you to do some research and provide sources for your claims. John Kerry was accepted into law school (unlike Dubya), and did earn a JD degree. Also, he signed a prenup, so really his own personal wealth is far less than Dubya's. And have you watched Bush on the news? Embarrassing!

It's really frustrating to keep providing information that dispels such remarks, yet inevitably the same false claims are posted again and again. Do people even read the posts--what's the problem?

 

[klusener]

SOS2008, never misunderestimate Bush's English skills...

 

[2CentsWorth]

None of them ever actually lived up to their cry-baby tactics and left however.

Let's see, you have to become a Canadian citizen (need lots of money), then employment (need jobs), then be willing to up root your family (new school, friends) -- yeh they're just pansies for not going through with it.

...(ha, and can't see he's not because we alllll have been watchen the news lately ;))

It's really tiring, but I'll post it again:

Also interesting are the results of a CNN poll conducted May 25, 2005:

Do you think the Bush White House is trying to control the media?

YES @ 94% (7,700)

NO @ 6% (478)

I can't believe how many members are in the 6% who still watch state sponsored news (Fox).

 

[2CentsWorth]

SOS2008, never misunderestimate Bush's English skills...

You mean at the 5th grade level that everyone can understand? I see what you mean. We could call it "Bush Speak."

 

[russ_watters]

It's really tiring, but I'll post it again:

That was a poll associated with a Lou Dobbs program. Its not a scientific poll.
Further, the question is so weak as to be pretty meaningless. Just think about it - better yet, apply it to any other President and see if you can say the same thing. #1 required skill of a politician: media manipulation.

 

[Pengwuino]

As usual I must ask you to do some research and provide sources for your claims. John Kerry was accepted into law school (unlike Dubya), and did earn a JD degree. Also, he signed a prenup, so really his own personal wealth is far less than Dubya's. And have you watched Bush on the news? Embarrassing!

Dont you watch http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student?mode=PF

It's certainly no secret to anyone familiar with the U.S. political scene that Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts has a net worth of several million dollars,

And although it seems he did sign that pre-nup (genius woman!), he is still, like i said, a millionaire

 

[Pengwuino]

That was a poll associated with a Lou Dobbs program. Its not a scientific poll.
Further, the question is so weak as to be pretty meaningless. Just think about it - better yet, apply it to any other President and see if you can say the same thing. #1 required skill of a politician: media manipulation.

You mean the 'other side' used a non-scientific poll and called it "proof"? I am shocked

 

[Art]

Dont you watch http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student?mode=PF



And although it seems he did sign that pre-nup (genius woman!), he is still, like i said, a millionaire

Have you actually read your own references?

The aggregate value of these five homes is roughly $29 million, but the claim that John Kerry "owns" all of these properties is problematic. John and Teresa Kerry signed a prenuptial agreement and have kept their premarital assets separate. The Boston townhouse (which John Kerry mortgaged in 2003 to finance his presidential bid) is the only one of these homes that they own as a couple; the other four belonged to Teresa before her 1995 marriage to John Kerry, and some of them are even still listed under the name of her late husband.

Also, according to the London Times, the Italian villa bought by actor George Clooney was sold a year before John Kerry announced his intention to seek the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination, and it was owned not by John or Teresa Kerry, but by Mrs. Drue Heinz, a relative of Teresa's through her marriage to John Heinz:

 

[Art]

That was a poll associated with a Lou Dobbs program. Its not a scientific poll.
Further, the question is so weak as to be pretty meaningless. Just think about it - better yet, apply it to any other President and see if you can say the same thing. #1 required skill of a politician: media manipulation.

So if CNN conduct a poll at the behest of the republican party it's scientific but if any other group commissions their services it is not. Yes that really makes a lot of sense Or do you just think CNN are incapable of organising a poll for anyone?
Also isn't your argument a little inconsistent? First you suggest the poll results are nonsense and then you argue that the same results would be found for any president.

 

[neurocomp2003]

ah american want to move to cdn and cdn wants to move to america..funny ****.

 

[SOS2008]

Correct. A poll is only valid if it is conducted by FOX News -- everyone knows that. Not to go OT and rehash the topic of Bush and the media, but it has been well substantiated in this forum, from paid pundits to pressuring Newsweek to retrack, etc. If there was a poll [e.g., Gallup] about media manipulation, Bush would take first place by a long shot.

Likewise Bush's background prior to becoming president has been well established in this forum, and it isn't complimentary. Does anyone deny this? Come on! Moving on...

The purpose of discussing Bush is because he is the current president of the U.S. -- not for comparison to Kerry, who is no longer running against Bush in an election, so why is this an ongoing thing with you Bushies? Stop clouding the problems with your usual "he was bad, but so was he" arguments. Stick to the topic, which is about Bush and his poor performance across the board. If you have proof of good things he has accomplished, knock yourselves out and make your case.

 

[BobG]

So if CNN conduct a poll at the behest of the republican party it's scientific but if any other group commissions their services it is not. Yes that really makes a lot of sense Or do you just think CNN are incapable of organising a poll for anyone?
Also isn't your argument a little inconsistent? First you suggest the poll results are nonsense and then you argue that the same results would be found for any president.

I think the gist is that it was a poll of folks who watch Lou Dobbs, not a random poll of Americans. It would be hard to figure out the skew in that poll - Dobbs has been kind of a financial conservative most of his career, but his campaign against outsourcing jobs has probably attracted more Democratic viewers along the way. It's also kind of hard to weigh how many viewers watch a show because of the host's politics or because of a host's personality. In other words, it's not very scientific.

I don't know what a scientific, random poll would return, but it would seem like common sense that any smart political leader would try to influence the media into putting a positive spin in their reports to the public. After all:

Polling Report
"From time to time, high government officials deny reports in the national news media and say the reports are not accurate. In such cases, who do you tend to believe: the government, or the national news media?"

Government - 26%
News Media - 46%
Depends - 22%
Unsure - 6%

That has to be a little disheartening to government leaders, considering:

"In general, how much trust and confidence do you have in the news media -- such as newspapers, newsmagazines, TV and radio news -- when it comes to reporting the news fully, accurately, and fairly: a great deal, a fair amount, not very much, or none at all?"

Great Deal - 11%
Fair Amount - 47%
Not Very Much - 29%
None At All - 13%
Unsure - 1%

 

[Informal Logic]

I think the gist is that it was a poll of folks who watch Lou Dobbs, not a random poll of Americans.

True. However, as you mention, Lou Dobbs tends to focus on certain topics, one of which is outsourcing of jobs and another related topic, illegal immigration. There are religious groups, conservatives (e.g., the Minutemen), etc. who are very much against outsourcing, illegal immigration, trade agreements like CAFTA, etc. I would hardly classify these folks as Democrats.

 

[Art]

And yes, i can see why you would htink leaving is the ultimate act of patriotism, pff! Thats like the ultimate act of law enforcement would to be evacuate a city and leave the criminals alone.

Good analogy Penqwuino I especially like the bit about "leaving the criminals alone".
Another own goal methinks.

 

[Art]

I think the gist is that it was a poll of folks who watch Lou Dobbs, not a random poll of Americans.

Does anybody have any references for this poll? If CNN conducted the poll I'd be surprised if they limited their sample to just Lou Dobbs viewers as a simple phone in would have sufficed.

 

[PerennialII]

Good analogy Penqwuino I especially like the bit about "leaving the criminals alone".
Another own goal methinks.

"cracker", something to really agree upon !

 

[SOS2008]

Does anybody have any references for this poll? If CNN conducted the poll I'd be surprised if they limited their sample to just Lou Dobbs viewers as a simple phone in would have sufficed.

They do polls daily, and it is advertised throughout the news broadcast--you can just go online and vote whenever, and see the results at that time.

 

[quantumcarl]

Canadians believe U.S. President George W. Bush is almost as great a threat...

When are people going to learn to speak for themselves? There's absolutely no way anyone can say what Canadians believe... there's 30,000,000 of us. Yeah yeah... really small number... you ¶©¢–¬¢ Americans got a 100 year long start on us, eh?!

 

[JamesU]

It's okay, America Jr.

 

[moose]

It's okay, America Jr.

Don't compliment them/my birthplace

 

[Amp1]

From the thread with Chomsky, who makes an interesting and factual observation,

The senior CIA analyst responsible for tracking Osama bin Laden from 1996, Michael Scheuer, writes that “bin Laden has been precise in telling America the reasons he is waging war on us. None of the reasons have anything to do with our freedom, liberty, and democracy, but have everything to do with U.S. policies and actions in the Muslim world.” Osama’s concern “is out to drastically alter U.S. and Western policies toward the Islamic world,” Scheuer writes: “He is a practical warrior, not an apocalyptic terrorist in search of Armageddon.” As Osama constantly repeats, “Al Qaeda supports no Islamic insurgency that seeks to conquer new lands.” Preferring comforting illusions, Washington ignores “the ideological power, lethality, and growth potential of the threat personified by Osama bin Laden, as well as the impetus that threat has been given by the U.S.-led invasion and occupation of Muslim Iraq, [which is] icing on the cake for al Qaeda.” “U.S. forces and policies are completing the radicalization of the Islamic world, something Osama bin Laden has been trying to do with substantial but incomplete success since the early 1990s. As a result, [Scheuer adds,] it is fair to conclude that the United States of America remains bin Laden's only indispensable ally.”

Wouldn't that kind of support the contention of this thread?