Calc. r & Compare Centrifugal & Magnet Force

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The discussion revolves around calculating the radius (r) in the context of centrifugal and magnetic forces. Participants clarify that centrifugal force is often considered a fictitious force, while magnetic force acts as the centripetal force in circular motion. A specific problem involving an alpha particle in a magnetic field is presented to illustrate the calculation of radius using relevant equations. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding forces from an inertial frame of reference. Ultimately, the distinction between real and fictitious forces is debated, highlighting the complexities of these concepts in physics.
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=mv^2
----------R
r


How do you calculate the r on the side?

Also is centrifugal force = to magnet force?
 
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Lorax said:
=mv^2
----------R
r


How do you calculate the r on the side?

Also is centrifugal force = to magnet force?

Depends on the problem.Give us a specific problem & we'll tell how to compute the "r",if u really have no idea.
Nope,the magnetic force has a centripetal effect,not a centrifugal effect.

Daniel.
 
Lorax, don't forget that centrifugal force doesn't actually exist.
 
Sirus said:
Lorax, don't forget that centrifugal force doesn't actually exist.

WHAT? It definitely exists.It's an inertial force (the name says:"centrifugal inertial force") and appears in every system which undergoes nonlinear movement.But only in the nonienrtial(accelerated) reference system.Did u ever go with a car/bus and took a turn...?

Daniel.
 
In a particle accelerator, an alpha particle with a mass of 6.64 x10^-27 kg is moving with a speed of 2.50x10^7 m/s. It is moving perpendicularily through a magnetic field of intensity 0.150 T. Using appropriote equations and method find the radius of curvature of its path.

Hope that helps
 
dextercioby said:
WHAT? It definitely exists.It's an inertial force (the name says:"centrifugal inertial force") and appears in every system which undergoes nonlinear movement.But only in the nonienrtial(accelerated) reference system.Did u ever go with a car/bus and took a turn...?

Daniel.

When you take a turn in a bus, although it may seem like a force is pushing you against the wall of the bus, this is not infact occurring. The reason you feel pushed is because you instantaneous velocity at that point is tangental to your circular path; your body is trying to travel into the wall.

Draw a free-body diagram of an object in circular motion. Do you draw a force vector pointing out of the circle? I hope not...

I think you and I have the same understanding of this concept, but are debating the semantic aspect, which is ultimately useless. According to Wikipedia, which explains the concept well, centrifugal force is a fictitious force. Here is their explanation of that. I guess I must admit that centrifugal force does exist, but I do not think circular motion is best thought of using it, especially at the high school level. It does not exist as a force the way other forces (such as the centripetal force) do in the inertial reference frame we are concerned with.

---------------

Lorax:

In your question, the magnetic force is the centripetal force for the circular motion of the particle. Set F_{m} equal to F_{c}, and try to develop an expression for radius as a function of things you can find, such as mass, velocity, magnetic field strength, etc.
 
I prefer to consider only forces that are apparent to an inertial observer to be "real". It is convenient to think about centrifugal force as "real", but not completely correct in conventional mechanics.

For a more rigorous treatment of this, read the D'Alembert's formulation of Newton's laws to incorporate inertial forces.
 
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