Calculate the work done in an external combustion engine

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the work done in an external combustion engine, specifically focusing on the pressure calculations in a piston-cylinder arrangement using different gases. Participants explore the application of the ideal gas law and the implications of temperature changes on pressure in a theoretical context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their attempts to calculate the pressure of 1 litre of dry air at 20°C using the ideal gas law, questioning whether their calculations are correct.
  • Another participant points out errors in the initial calculations, clarifying that 'n' should represent moles and that volume should be in cubic meters, not liters.
  • A participant seeks to understand how to calculate the initial and final pressures in a piston-cylinder system when the gas temperature is raised, suggesting that the final pressure may be derived from dividing the initial pressure by 4.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the need to know the external pressure on the piston to calculate the final pressure after adiabatic expansion, referencing the first law of thermodynamics and the work done by the gas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the initial calculations and the correct application of the ideal gas law. There is no consensus on the correct approach to calculating pressures in the described scenario, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the correct methodology for calculating pressures in the piston-cylinder system, and there are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions and units used in the calculations.

curiouschris
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Hi

Not a homework question, just a fool tinkering...

I have been messing around with the concepts of a stirling engine, and have been looking at other engines which do not use an explosive mixture (petrol etc) as their heat source.

I have to say I am having trouble getting my head around doing what I thought would be a simple calculation.

When calculating the pressure of 1 litre of air(dry air) at 20c I get the following..

P=(nRT)/V
n R T V P?
28.97 8.314 293.15 1 70607.10643 (70.6kPa)

Does this mean 28.97 moles of dry air in a 1 litre container at 20c will have an internal pressure of 70.6kPa? or have I got that all wrong?


What I wanted to work out was a way to calculate the pressure on a piston using different gasses in the following configuration...

Assuming a cylinder with a piston at one end and closed at the other, no leaks around the piston (uses acme no leak rings)

An initial volume of 0.25 litres
A final volume of 1.0 litre
Initial pressure in the cylinder of 101kPa at 25c (standard temp and pressure?)

Given the temperature of the gas within the cylinder was raised to 50c instantly.

Using plain dry air as an example how would I calculate the pressure exerted on the piston?
I realize I have to subtract 101kPa from the result to get the actual working pressure at sea level.

How would I calculate the initial pressure (piston fully 'home') ?
How would I calculate the final pressure (piston fully extended) ? (I assume I would divide the previous result by 4)


When using different gasses and gas mixes do I simply replace the molar value with the value or sum of values of the new gas mixture?

Ta in advance
CC
 
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curiouschris said:
Hi

Not a homework question, just a fool tinkering...

I have been messing around with the concepts of a stirling engine, and have been looking at other engines which do not use an explosive mixture (petrol etc) as their heat source.

I have to say I am having trouble getting my head around doing what I thought would be a simple calculation.

When calculating the pressure of 1 litre of air(dry air) at 20c I get the following..

P=(nRT)/V
n R T V P?
28.97 8.314 293.15 1 70607.10643 (70.6kPa)

Does this mean 28.97 moles of dry air in a 1 litre container at 20c will have an internal pressure of 70.6kPa? or have I got that all wrong?
one mole of any gas will occupy 22.4 litres at STP: 0 C and one atmosphere pressure. You are making two errors: n has units of moles, not grams. V has units of m^3 not litres.

You can figure this out from PV=nRT: P = 101,325 Pa; n=1; R = 8.3145;T=273

AM
 
Thanks Andrew

I have found a tutorial on khan academy that is helping. I'll retry my question once I have a better grasp on it.

I had a longer answer but I was logged out and lost it :(
 
curiouschris said:
What I wanted to work out was a way to calculate the pressure on a piston using different gasses in the following configuration...

Assuming a cylinder with a piston at one end and closed at the other, no leaks around the piston (uses acme no leak rings)

An initial volume of 0.25 litres
A final volume of 1.0 litre
Initial pressure in the cylinder of 101kPa at 25c (standard temp and pressure?)

Given the temperature of the gas within the cylinder was raised to 50c instantly.

Using plain dry air as an example how would I calculate the pressure exerted on the piston?
I realize I have to subtract 101kPa from the result to get the actual working pressure at sea level.

How would I calculate the initial pressure (piston fully 'home') ?
How would I calculate the final pressure (piston fully extended) ? (I assume I would divide the previous result by 4)
So you start with a cylinder of air at 101 kPa pressure and 25C temperature with a piston that confines the air to .25 litre. You then heat the gas to 50C instantly and the air then expands to 1 litre.

First you want to know the initial pressure in the cylinder after the air temperature is raised to 50C. To do this just use the ideal gas law: P/T = constant (T in Kelvin) where V is constant.

Second, you want to know the final pressure in the cylinder after expansion. This is an adiabatic expansion from air at an initial temperature of 50C. To calculate that, we would need to know the external pressure on the piston. The reason for this has to do with the first law of thermodynamics. We have to determine how much work was done in expansion. That energy comes out of the internal energy of the gas. ie since this is an adiabatic expansion, Q = 0 so ΔU = -W where W is the work done BY the gas.

AM
 

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