Calibrating Equipment to Standard: Can A Volt Ever Be Accurate?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bpatyk2
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Standard Volt
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calibration of voltage measurement equipment, particularly the accuracy of measuring 1 volt and the standards used in metrology. Participants explore the complexities of voltage standards, the role of the Josephson Array Voltage Standard, and the distinctions between accuracy and resolution in measurement devices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that calibration requires a standard with greater accuracy than the equipment being calibrated, raising questions about the limits of accuracy in voltage measurement.
  • One participant highlights the Josephson Array Voltage Standard, which can generate voltages with high accuracy, but questions whether measurements taken from it can be considered "exact."
  • Another participant explains that while the Josephson voltage can be seen as a "true" standard, the complexities of defining the Volt and using the CODATA value for the Josephson constant introduce uncertainties.
  • It is mentioned that voltage metrology has evolved to allow for high accuracy calibration of voltage standards, with some labs achieving accuracy better than advertised.
  • One participant distinguishes between accuracy and resolution, sharing experiences with different types of multimeters and the challenges of measuring very small voltages in practical environments.
  • Concerns are raised about environmental factors affecting measurements, such as temperature gradients and the use of dissimilar metals in test probes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of accuracy in voltage measurements and the implications of using various standards. There is no consensus on whether a piece of equipment can ever accurately measure 1 volt, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the complexities of voltage calibration.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations related to definitions of accuracy and resolution, as well as the dependence on environmental conditions for precise measurements. The discussion reflects the nuanced challenges in voltage metrology without resolving these issues.

bpatyk2
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
I've worked in calibration for a few years and I know that my equipment has to be calibrated by a standard that is a certain amount more accurate than the piece of equipment I'm calibrating, but where exactly does it end where the most accurate piece of equipment is calibrated by the absolute standard? Can a piece of equipment ever actually accurately measure 1 volt?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
Now there's a question that opens up a whole world of its own, metrology.

http://www.sandia.gov/psl/Dc_fact%20Sheet2008_Final.pdf


DC voltage measurements start with the Josephson Array Voltage Standard that can generate voltages between zero and 10 volts and calibrate Zener voltage standards with an accuracy of better than ± 0.02 ppm at 10 volts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I got to say that's pretty damn f*ing accurate, but does that mean we are taking measurements directly from this josephson array standard. That's still not exactly accurate right?
 
bpatyk2 said:
I got to say that's pretty damn f*ing accurate, but does that mean we are taking measurements directly from this josephson array standard. That's still not exactly accurate right?

Yes it is, sort of. If the Josephson voltage was a "true" standard; it would -by definition- be exact.

In reality it is a bit more complicated than that since the Volt is not actually a base unit (the Ampere is). Hence, what we are actually doing is using the accepted CODATA value for the Josephson constant (483.6 GHz/V). The Josephson constant can be used to relate frequency and voltage, and since we can get the frequency from our hydrogen masers ("atomic clocks") the precision of that is extremely high (probably at least one part in 10^14 if you integrate for long enough).

This is how voltage metrology has been done in the past 25 years or so. From a practical point of view it means that we can calibrate voltage standards (in this case Zener diodes) with an accuracy much, much higher than for anything me need in practical applications.

Btw, the 0.02 ppm is VERY conservative. Most standard labs can calibrate their secondary standard with an accuracy that is at least one order of magnitude better than advertised, this is to have some tolerance for unexpected aging etc.

EditL I forgot to say that is possible to just calibrate say a multimeter from a Josephson array setup. This is done routinely in some demanding applications: some high-end multimeters have calibration inputs a the back, and by re-calibrating them say once a day (which can be done automatically) one can avoid problems with drift etc.
 
There's accuracy and there's resolution.

A meter is accurate when it reports correctly to the limit of its ability.

A three digit meter is"accurate" if all three digits are true.
I once had access to a six digit multimeter, but that much resolution was useless - we had nothing that'd stand still enough the last two digits wasn't all over the place. Well, except a meter calibrator.

They're talking about eight digits.. boggles my mind. That takes a lab environment.

When you need to resolve microvolts, you struggle with effects like the temperature gradient along your measuring wires , dissimilar metals in your test prods and the like. These guys talk of ability to resolve, indeed measure, down to a tenth of a microvolt.
100X that, around ten microvolts, is a fraction of a degreeF to a thermocouple. In forty years of practical industrial work i never had any need to resolve DC voltage any closer than that. Four digits were enough. But you need a five digit meter to check your four digit one. And so on...

Look ma, no participles !

old jim
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
5K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 79 ·
3
Replies
79
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
8K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K