Can America compete: A textbook case of failure

[stepperry]

Thanks again Dimirti Terryn for your help. How many pages do the Maths/Physics,Biology and Chemistry books have?

 

[stepperry]

Dimirti Terryn would be able to email me some informantion on the textbookss that you used Math,Physics,Informatics,Biology, and Chemistry, History, Geography during Seconary School/ High school? I would like to a secondary/ University here in the The USA that is baed on a mixture of the American/British/German/Belgian and Scandnavian education systems I would would the best of all of them and combined it.Hoe is the school day set up in Belgium? Thank very much in advance for your help.

 

[Kalimaa23]

We do not use textbooks like in the US. Mostly teachers/Professors compile their own course texts. So I'm afraid I won't able to help you there.

 

[stepperry]

We do not use textbooks like in the US. Mostly teachers/Professors compile their own course texts. So I'm afraid I won't able to help you there.

Thank you. How many days a week did you have 7th to 12 thgrade:
Math:
Boilogy:
Physics:
Chemistry:
Dutch :
French :
English:
History:
Geography:
Informatics:
Economics:
Moral or Religious course:

 

[Kalimaa23]

Man...good question. Here's what I remember from my last year. I'll look up the rest and mail it to you, ok?

Hours/ a week

Math: 8h
Boilogy: 3h
Physics: 3h
Chemistry: 3h
Dutch : 5h
French : 3h
English: 3h
History: 2h
Geography: 2h
Informatics: 2h
Economics: 0h
Moral or Religious course: 2h

 

[marlon]

All but Economics, German and Greek. I choose catholic for the religious one. .I'm technically one, like most people in this country. I was a fun course. Turns out most people taking it were atheïsts like me.

No German, shame on you. I took the catholic religion course as well because, err, i had to. I was in a catholic high school (which in Belgium is called "a college".). I had to study like the Latin Mass and stuff "Introibo ad altare Dei..."

marlon

 

[gravenewworld]

it's always doom and gloom about the US education system, but c'mon you can't deny that the US has some of the best scientists in the world. every year it seems that at least 1 american wins a nobel prize.

 

[stepperry]

Man...good question. Here's what I remember from my last year. I'll look up the rest and mail it to you, ok?

Hours/ a week

Math: 8h
Boilogy: 3h
Physics: 3h
Chemistry: 3h
Dutch : 5h
French : 3h
English: 3h
History: 2h
Geography: 2h
Informatics: 2h
Economics: 0h
Moral or Religious course: 2h

thank you, Dimitri Terryn

 

[stepperry]

it's always doom and gloom about the US education system, but c'mon you can't deny that the US has some of the best scientists in the world. every year it seems that at least 1 american wins a nobel prize.

What I am saying is not met to be Doom & Gloom.

 

[Kalimaa23]

No German, shame on you. I took the catholic religion course as well because, err, i had to. I was in a catholic high school (which in Belgium is called "a college".). I had to study like the Latin Mass and stuff "Introibo ad altare Dei..."

marlon

I took it at a state school (atheneum). We mainly talked about sex.

 

[GCT]

“devastatingly far” from leading the world in science and math.

...certainly an interesting choice of words here, "devastating."

 

[Kalimaa23]

it's always doom and gloom about the US education system, but c'mon you can't deny that the US has some of the best scientists in the world. every year it seems that at least 1 american wins a nobel prize.

True, but the impression I get from the US education system is that is substandard compared to the rest of the Western world during secondary education and at the undergraduate level. At the graduate level however, this level raises dramatically.

Just looking at Nobel winners is not a good benchmark for the general quality of education.

 

[ShawnD]

True, but the impression I get from the US education system is that is substandard compared to the rest of the Western world during secondary education and at the undergraduate level. At the graduate level however, this level raises dramatically.

Not to be a jerk... but I think Oprah had a show about this. She had some girl on the show who was an amazing honors student in high school, but she turned into a college slacker because she wasn't at the same level as what the college assumed people knew. Some of the stuff she didn't know enough of was calculus, physics (based on calculus), how to use a microscope (it's not as easy as it looks), some higher up biology stuff, and some of the math oriented chemistry stuff.
I know in my classes a few of these held true. I took a year of engineering and found out half the people there had never taken calculus before. In chemistry, some of the people had never seen or heard of the nernst equation. Some people didn't know LeChatelier's Principle, how to calculate equilibrium constants, or KSP values.

It's a real statistic that the majority of college students will quit after the first year. Part of it is finding out college isn't some nonstop party, but the other part is finding you aren't at the same level as everybody else and end up being 'that guy' nobody wants to work with.

With regard to this problem of underqualified teachers:
People seem to forget is that the teachers actually learn the material to the point where they can teach it to others. For example, my grade 10 social studies teacher was technically a gym teacher and the soccer coach. Despite that, he knew more about history than anybody else simply because he had been teaching that class for over 10 years.
It's not like underqualified teachers are idiots forever; they're only idiots until they learn the material they are teaching and are able to present that material in an understandable way. Some of the worst teachers I've ever had were bad not because they lacked knowledge but because they could not put across ideas in an understandable way. If forced to choose between a well spoken idiot and a poorly spoken genius, I would take the idiot any day of the week.

 

[bomba923]

As far as American education "undergraduate & below" is concerned,
a major problem exists in that much of the talk about "academic standards" seems to ignore the equally crucial detail of HOW TO ENFORCE those standards. With grade inflation* (needless to say, working alongside low standards) rather ubiquitous (in opportunity and application) in public schools, I say it's time we look beyond teachers...towards something a little more...'impartial' (for lack of a better word)...for the enforcement of academic standards.
(If you wish, my concrete reform solution is discussed in this thread)

*I employ the term "grade inflation" to broadly describe ANY situation when an individual student receives a grade that does not represent/corresponds to his/her competence in/understanding of the course material. It can occur unbeknownst to the teacher. As some may think, I define "grade inflation" broadly.

 

[Moonbear]

Just looking at Nobel winners is not a good benchmark for the general quality of education.

True. If anything, it speaks to the quality of education probably over 40 years ago when those Nobel winners were in school, but says nothing about where the current generation will fare.

 

[TuviaDaCat]

I've found that the courses i do best in and the ones that I learn the most in are the ones where I never even open a textbook. A good teacher can do far more than a textbook could ever hope to. I think we should stop buying them altogether. I've found that very few students read the textbook anyway, especially the science and math ones, and the ones that do usually just get confused. Then the teacher explains what they've just read and it all makes more sense. Why not just cut out the middle man and give students less homework by teaching them what they need to know in the first place rather than wasting money and time on textbooks that don't help that much in the end anyway?

well, no... when written by an academic organization, it may come out great, i have this 3 books on electric field, magnetic field, and modern physics, by "machon veizman" which is a research institute here in israel, and those books are great.
also I am learning now in the open university, where most teaching is done with set of books, and it seems they did a great job with linear algebra 1 and 2.

it turns out that i can understand material much better with a good quality book, which explains everything to the bone, rather than being in a class and try to keep up with the teacher's voice... a teacher just doesn't leave you time to process the info...

 

[Kalimaa23]

Just wondering, what level of education do you need to teach in an American High or Middle School?

Over here you need to be a regent (meaning three years of non-university higher education, basically a Bachelor's degree) to teach lower secondary school (ages 12-15) and a Master's degree from a university and an additional one year degree called "aggregaat" (this is a practical and theoretical program op pedagogy) to teach in higher secondary school (ages 15-18).

@ShawnD : Similar things happen here. Enrollment at a university of your choice is free, so naturally you get a number of people who should be there. Altough universities try very hard to get across what they expect from first years, and organise intro classes in summer, the rate of failure is still high. Only about 30% of students make it through their first year, less so in the "hard" sciences.

 

[Blahness]

Bomba, long time no see!

Glad to see you still care about what I'm going through(not really =P, but you know) ^_^

 

[stepperry]

Just wondering, what level of education do you need to teach in an American High or Middle School?

Over here you need to be a regent (meaning three years of non-university higher education, basically a Bachelor's degree) to teach lower secondary school (ages 12-15) and a Master's degree from a university and an additional one year degree called "aggregaat" (this is a practical and theoretical program op pedagogy) to teach in higher secondary school (ages 15-18).

@ShawnD : Similar things happen here. Enrollment at a university of your choice is free, so naturally you get a number of people who should be there. Altough universities try very hard to get across what they expect from first years, and organise intro classes in summer, the rate of failure is still high. Only about 30% of students make it through their first year, less so in the "hard" sciences.

A Bachlors Degree 4 years with a Teaching Credential one to 1.5 years (either multipule subject or single subject). This would for Middle School and High School. If a teacher of 12-18 year olds he/she has a Masters Degree he/she get paid more. The masters degree take 2 years if your not working while doing Maters degree work.
If you want to be College/University teacher or Professor at least a Masters degree while professors probably need needs a Ph.D.

 

[stepperry]

How many hours/days a week 7th to 12th grade
Art:
Physical Education:
Technological Education: