Programs Can I get a Ph.D. in physics if my bachelor's degree isn't in physics

[Vankha]

This thread is making me think more and more about engineering (as if I ever stopped)...i'll continue tapping my fingers nervously as I keep reading this post..

 

[sronen71]

Hi,
I'd think it is quite feasible to go to a post-grad degree in physics with a BS in EE or other degrees that require/demonstrate strong quantitative skills. There are big areas of overlap between physics and engineering, physics and chemistry and physics and biology. Just for example, in MIT there is a professor of physics that is interested in wireless power transfer, and there is a collaboration on this between the physics and engineering departments. I think it is important to realize that unlike undergraduate studies, your grad school experience will vastly depend on your chosen specialization and supervisor (at least for PhD, less so for MS), So it can be good to look at some researchers profiles on the web and try to contact them by email. Your skills and background may be just what some professor is looking for. She/he may help you to understand your chances to get into school, and maybe even help.
Of course, perhaps you really want to change direction, e.,g, you have BS in EE but would like to do research in string theory, then frankly I think this would be very difficult. But who know,
Ed Witten had his bachelor degree in history with a minor in linguistics. He went on to do a PhD in physics in Harvard and become the most cited physicist of all times. Of course, he is a genius and such a path is really a super freak thing. But switching from a natural science or math degree seems realistic.

 

[ZapperZ]

It is rather misleading to cite unusual exceptions as "proof". This gives the wrong impression that such a thing can be done, and done often. It isn't.

I've had a couple of physics professors who came from EE undergraduate background. So certainly it is doable to come from relatively close background and do a Ph.D in physics. But again, look at the qualifying exam and figure out if, based on your degree, are you able to get through right away without taking remedial courses?

The tests I've listed removed the original question from being simply a matter of opinion to something that has a concrete self-evaluation. It is now no longer purely anecdotal, but an actual "experiment".

Zz.

 

[twofish-quant]

2. Qualifying exams are, I think, unique to US schools. There may be some form of that in other parts of the world, but I use that phrase to define the single-most annoying, nerve-wrecking, sleep-depriving, stress-inducing barrier that any phd candidate in a US institution has to go through.

Not all. The astronomy department at UT Austin doesn't have qualifiers and replaces them with a second year project and presentation.

 

[saim_]

Maybe its just a personal bias, but, I feel a significant proportion of people asking this question, of transferring to physics after undergrad, are either from mechanical or electrical engineering. Now, doing undergrad in physics just wasn't an option for me due to some personal reasons. From among the engineering fields I chose mechanical, feeling it was the closest to a physics degree and provided the next best preparation for physics grad school, besides physics. I'm looking for confirmation of this feeling of mine and that I made the correct decision.

Like any standard mechanical engineering degree plan, we are required to complete multiple courses in all of the following: classical mechanics, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics and heat transfer. We are only required a Resnick level of EM course (which I hear is enough for physics GRE!) along with circuit analysis or logic design and an electronics course. I also intend to take "Electromagnetics, Fields and Waves" as an extra course from EE department , which, from its course description, seems to be an intermediate level EM course, almost at the level of Griffith's Electrodynamics. Also, I maybe able to take a modern physics course, covering basic relativity and quantum physics, from engineering sciences faculty. Besides this, we do single and multivariable calc, diff eqs, statistics and probability, numerical analysis, and in senior year, as a part of specialization, we can take Finite Element Method which is basically just numerical solutions of PDEs (I think).

I'm well aware that all the courses I mentioned will be applications oriented, unlike how they would have been in a physics degree, but still, aren't we covering everything, in greater detail, except modern physics? I agree modern physics is a large part of a physics curriculum but wouldn't one or two additional modern physics course be enough to get me upto the level of an average physics grad?

On the other hand, a EE, besides "over-mastering" electromagnetism, will not cover any of the other basic fields of physics, will he? No thermo, no fluid and only an introductory first year mechanics course to fill the classical mechanics spot. So, isn't a mechE better off in terms of basic physics preparation ?

 

[Aeon]

Nobody wants to pursue graduate studies in chemistry.

Why does physics get all the love?

:(

 

[jtbell]

Why does physics get all the love?

:(

Because this is first and foremost a physics forum! We have forums for other subjects, of course, but those are basically sideshows. People who are mainly into other areas like (say) chemistry have more appropriate places to hang out, I'm sure.

 

[Dougggggg]

This all leads me to a question for ZapperZ. I am a Physics major now in my undergrad, I am also getting a double major in Math, so effectively between the 2, I am getting almost every Math credit available at my school. Still undecided between either math or physics for graduate school. If I choose Physics, should my math background be enough for graduate school in Physics?

Math courses I will have by graduate-Calc, I, II, III, and Intro to Proofs couse, Discrete Methods, Real Analysis, Linear and Matrix Algebra, Euclidian and non Euclidian Geometry, Modern Algebra, Prob and Stats, Math Methods for Physical Science and Engineering, and Differential Equations. If there is anything else I really need, please let me know. I do not want to have lack of math become an issue. It has always been my strength, in fact, many times, my mathematical understanding of things has helped me in my Physics classes.

 

[Aeon]

@Dougggggg

Lol.

 

[Dougggggg]

@Dougggggg

Lol.

...?

 

[Aeon]

I laughed because your post beats the whole point of this thread.

I'm not offended nor wanting to offend, I just saw the unintentional irony in what you wrote.

:P

 

[Dougggggg]

I can see how that could be something one could notice, maybe I should have clarified with something along the lines, is there any other math I should take or study to be prepared for graduate school for Physics.

 

[Aeon]

The answer to your question is to be found in the first post of this thread.

That's what I meant.

 

[Dougggggg]

If your referring to his "So you want to be a Physicist" article, I have read it and the math section ended with an etc. So I was honestly just checking to see if there is anything else I should take. I don't want to overlook anything before I graduate.

 

[Dynamos]

I think that this thread should be "sticky-ed", or at least linked to Zz's main faq-type thread ("So you want to be a physicist").

Either way, thanks for info, ZapperZ.

 

[ZapperZ]

No problem. Because of the comments on here, I've added a chapter to my essay covering this topic.

Zz.

 

[dhananjay.unn]

Hi!
I am currently in my final year doing Mechanical Engg from a Govt college (in India).
I have written GRE and will start applying for universities in 3 week's time.
But, my interest in Mechanical engg is declining day by day. Since my 9th grade, I've always wanted to study Physics, and wish to study it after I complete B.Tech.

My question is: Is it possible for me to jump to pure Physics with an Engg background?
If I have to apply to foreign universities, what are the requirements I will need, to compensate for my lack of a basic degree in Physics?
Will writing PHYSICS GRE help me?
Or should I try for an internship in a Physics related field?

I am desperately looking forward to your replies.
Thank you.

 

[golu14]

Im yet to start my undergrad degree and was leaning towards a bsc maths and economics.
This would be having, say, 70% of maths and 30% economics content.
I will also have a few certificate of professional development in astronomy and cosmology by the time i finish this degree.

Do u think after doing all i wrote above i will be able to take astrophysics as a subject for masters and research degrees? I mean, am i technically qualified for it? Or its also like english and physics difference?
Sorry the procedure you told cannot be done by me as i don't really hold any degree yet!

 

[ZapperZ]

Hi!
I am currently in my final year doing Mechanical Engg from a Govt college (in India).
I have written GRE and will start applying for universities in 3 week's time.
But, my interest in Mechanical engg is declining day by day. Since my 9th grade, I've always wanted to study Physics, and wish to study it after I complete B.Tech.

My question is: Is it possible for me to jump to pure Physics with an Engg background?
If I have to apply to foreign universities, what are the requirements I will need, to compensate for my lack of a basic degree in Physics?
Will writing PHYSICS GRE help me?
Or should I try for an internship in a Physics related field?

I am desperately looking forward to your replies.
Thank you.

Im yet to start my undergrad degree and was leaning towards a bsc maths and economics.
This would be having, say, 70% of maths and 30% economics content.
I will also have a few certificate of professional development in astronomy and cosmology by the time i finish this degree.

Do u think after doing all i wrote above i will be able to take astrophysics as a subject for masters and research degrees? I mean, am i technically qualified for it? Or its also like english and physics difference?
Sorry the procedure you told cannot be done by me as i don't really hold any degree yet!

I think both of you missed the whole point of this thread. So I will repeat it.

If you wish to do graduate work in physics (or astrophysics) in the US, I have outlined to you two ways for you to check for yourself if you have the capability to survive graduate school. I won't repeat what those are, because they have been plainly described in the very first post in this thread.

This is a solid, first-order check that you can do for yourself, without needing the opinion or intervention of others. Until you can do that, then this thread should not be used, because it was NOT meant to deal with such-and-such a scenario for the possibility of doing this or that.

Zz.

 

[Ghostie]

Zapperz, thank you for recommending this thread for answers to my questions:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=563251

I read through this whole thread and still have a few specific questions regarding preparation for grad work.

Need I only be concerned with preparation for grad work or do I also have to have a degree in physics (or more closely related than what I have- international relations) to wave at them when applying? This distinction is important. If it's prep alone that I should be concerned with then I can go about it in any way I choose, take classes from here or there and do some independent study. However, if grad programs really need to see a degree, I will have to complete a structured program at a university.

 

[eri]

A bachelors degree is a requirement to apply to any graduate program. A major in physics or at least most of the classes of a physics major are required to get into a physics graduate program. They don't start over at the beginning - they assume you have a strong background in physics, and you need to prove to them that you do through grades in coursework and physics GRE scores. They are not going to accept independent study.

 

[Ghostie]

I understand that you need a degree to get into grad school. I will have a degree, but in a totally unrelated field - international relations. I also understand that I will need a strong background in physics in order to do grad work. The question I'm asking is if I absolutely need to get a second bachelor's degree or if I can take courses on my own, at community college for instance or online, and then apply.

 

[Highway]

I understand that you need a degree to get into grad school. I will have a degree, but in a totally unrelated field - international relations. I also understand that I will need a strong background in physics in order to do grad work. The question I'm asking is if I absolutely need to get a second bachelor's degree or if I can take courses on my own, at community college for instance or online, and then apply.

i doubt a community college offers senior level e&m or other classes needed to do well on the pGRE . . . you probably need to take most of your classes at a 4-year school, even if you don't get a degree out of it.

 

[eri]

Online schools don't offer the labs you need for intro classes (and I really wouldn't trust them to teach any physics, frankly) and community colleges don't offer anything but intro classes. So no, you'd have to attend a college or university.

 

[Choppy]

I understand that you need a degree to get into grad school. I will have a degree, but in a totally unrelated field - international relations. I also understand that I will need a strong background in physics in order to do grad work. The question I'm asking is if I absolutely need to get a second bachelor's degree or if I can take courses on my own, at community college for instance or online, and then apply.

Unfortunately the answer is yes, you do need to get another degree.

On graduate admissions web pages where they say "a degree in physics or quivalent" the 'or equivalent' part refers to related disciplines such as engineering physics, mathematics, or physical chemistry with an appropriate subset of coursework. International relations with a couple community college courses won't cut it for graduate admissions.

 

[sweetpotato]

If it's prep alone that I should be concerned with then I can go about it in any way I choose, take classes from here or there and do some independent study. However, if grad programs really need to see a degree, I will have to complete a structured program at a university.

You can complete introductoy classes in math and physics "here or there", from community colleges, at a local state school, or even online. However, there is virtually no way to take advanced undergraduate-level physics courses, the ones that physics majors generally take their jr. and sr. years, without actually being formally enrolled in a 4 year school. Even assuming you studied some advanced topics independently, how will you "prove" that you have this knowledge to the grad schools you apply to? More to the point, physics majors usually spend four long and difficult years mastering physics. It is very highly unlikely that you can pick up the equivalent amount of knowledge "here and there".

 

[dpa]

well, i get that its entirely whether i feel i can/am prepared.
I, however would like to know whether doing a engineering from one of the poorest education system in the world, hinders me from getting into hpsm.
Is there such thing like acceptance rate? Could you write that too.

 

[jtbell]

hpsm? Health Plan of San Mateo? HP Service Manager? Healing Place School of Ministry?

 

[dpa]

a goldee doesnot know hpsm.
Its harvard, princeton, mit, stanford.

 

[jtbell]

Try the forum search. You'll find that our posts are literally the only ones on PF (in eight years or so) that contain the exact "word" hpsm.

[added] It appears the more common acronym is HYPMS (including Yale). Even that one turns up only three times in a PF forum search.