Can MRI Detect a Light Bulb Inside a Closed Box?

[fredreload]

I put a light bulb inside a box and make it glow, is there a way to know where the light bulb is if the box is closed and not transparent

 

[berkeman]

I put a light bulb inside a box and make it glow, is there a way to know where the light bulb is if the box is closed and not transparent

Sure. What are your thoughts?

 

[fredreload]

We human have not advance far in science(I have no idea)

 

[berkeman]

We human have not advance far in science(I have no idea)

What is the context of the question? What are the constraints?

Given different constraints, I can think of at least 3 ways of locating the light bulb in the box...

 

[fredreload]

Some type of x ray vision? Some kind of imaging technique

 

[berkeman]

Some type of x ray vision? Some kind of imaging technique

Yes, that would be one way. You need to take 3 x-rays to get the full (x,y,z) position.

 

[jerromyjon]

You need to take 3 x-rays to get the full (x,y,z) position.

Or 2, 2 dimensional x-ray pictures...

 

[sophiecentaur]

If it's a filament bulb (producing significant heat), you could take thermal images of the six faces. The temperature distribution over the faces could give a good indication of the bulb's position.

 

[anorlunda]

1. Finding the box's balance point should reveal the bulb's position; centered, or on one side, or in a corner.
2. Shaking the box would tell us if the bulb is free to move in the box. If yes, stop shaking. The bulb will be at the lowest point.
3. If wires stick out of the box, pull them. The bulb should be drawn to the point where the wires penetrate.
4. Crush the box down to the shape of the bulb.
5. You put the bulb in. I'll force you to tell me where in the box you put it. Alternatively, I'll watch the video of you putting it in.
6. I'll guess the position and challenge you to prove me wrong.

Thanks for the OP. This is fun. When you make a challenge like this, locking down the rules is the hardest part. Changing the rules is the most fun part for the challenger.

 

[jerromyjon]

Changing the rules is the most fun part for the challenger.

7. spinning the box to determine center of mass...

 

[anorlunda]

8. Cause the bulb to shatter. The pieces will be found at the bottom.
9. If an incandescent bulb, use a DC current and a compass needle to detect magnetic fields.
10. If fluorescent or LED, look for RF interference.
11. If incandescent, use low frequency AC. Listen for the mechanical vibrations at 2x the AC frequency as the filament expands and contracts with instantaneous power.

 

[jerromyjon]

12. sonar?
That would be adaptable I think... like how a bat could see it, perhaps.

 

[anorlunda]

12. sonar?
That would be adaptable I think... like how a bat could see it, perhaps.

Sure, use sonar, call it ultrasound. Good one.

Who is up for 13?

 

[jerromyjon]

call it ultrasound

I did at first and changed it... wasn't sure if it works through air...

 

[anorlunda]

I did at first and changed it... wasn't sure if it works through air...

The OP did not specify air, and we are having fun finding all the loopholes in his problem statement.

 

[jerromyjon]

having fun finding all the loopholes in his problem statement.

...now I'm having fun wondering if bats can "see" through walls... too! I just googled it and found something about cellphone seeing through walls...

 

[anorlunda]

13. Radar. No limits on the box or bulb size in the OP, so radar could locate a big bulb.

14 anyone?

 

[CWatters]

14. Pipe or metal detector.
15. If it's one of these Philips bulbs.. Hack into the chip in the bulb and ask it where it is :-)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32848763

...each of the fitted LEDs transmit a distinct location code

 

[jbriggs444]

Since the rules do not specify that we are outside the box, simply look at the bulb and see where it is.

 

[fredreload]

What if I want to see the light from the light bulb?

 

[Johnny Reb]

16. ask Schrodinger's cat where it is

 

[256bits]

17. If the box is wood or cardboard, bring in termites - they should eat the box letting you see where the bulb is.
18. Let the box corrode, erode chemically, mechanically - you should then see where the bulb is
19. Poke fine rods through the box - obstruction, you are hitting some part of the bulb.
20. Place moths with accurate and precise GPS - record their movement and one can determine where the bulb is.

21 is the challenge

Edit - had to edit the list #

 

[BillyT]

Magnetic resonance 3D imaging. That tells not only where cancerous masses are but their shape/ size and where tiny gold implanted reference spheres (markers for daily localized radiation treatments extending over weeks, to not do too much damage to normal tissue) are.

Modern MRI machines used with accurately shaped beams from linear accelerators. The cross section shape of beam changes with beam approach angle to be same as the cross section area of the target "seen" from the current beam angle.

 

[BillyT]

Make separately large thermal gradients across the box (one for each direction thru box) and with no power applied, measure the resistance between the wires. This assumes lamp is a tungsten filament type. The resistance hot, is almost twice that when cold. (Why those lamps often burn out at first turn on - large initial current surge.)

 

[rons99]

By using thermal camera shoot the box surface from the top, front and right side could be known the light bulb position. Good luck.

 

[gjonesy]

If it's a traditional light bulb...simplest solution metal detector. Depending on the size of the box the place you get the loudest tone will be the location... Some will even tell you what metal at what depth.

 

[fredreload]

Well, how about a way to extract the light wave emitted by the light bulb? Is that possible

 

[anorlunda]

Well, how about a way to extract the light wave emitted by the light bulb? Is that possible

Don't change the question at this late stage. Use your own common sense. You say "extract light" and you say "not transparent". Doesn't that sound like a contradiction? If there was a way, it would by definition be transparent. There is no physics to learn from contradictory language.

 

[Jupiter'sTwin]

Open the box.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Well, how about a way to extract the light wave emitted by the light bulb? Is that possible

I suspect these questions are related to the questions that you've been asking about brain imaging in the biology form.

Anyway, if the bulb is incandescent, you could do thermal imaging (if the box is transparent to IR) to estimate the temperature of the filament inside the bulb. Since the light is produced by a well known physical mechanism, you could then model the spectrum of light output by the bulb based on measured parameters.

 

[Inventive]

One could go back to basics with calculus such as the heat equation or consider this: Place a thermistor on the face of each side of the box then connect each pair of thermistors (x,y and, z,y planes for example) leads to a differential amplifier on a split supply. Using this approach the one use the differential voltage (+/- voltage swing) to determine which planes (side of the box ) is getting warmer. Are you sure the wattage of your light bulb will not start a fire or cause some other safety problem?

 

[rons99]

By using thermal camera shoot the box surface from the top, front and right side could be known the light bulb position. Good luck.

By using thermal camera shoot the box surface from the top, front and right side could be known the light bulb position. Good luck.

 

[Inventive]

The thermal image is a cool way to do it. Maybe use the idea to build something like a new kind of trap. Perhaps feeding an input signal to a system operating in a closed or open loop control system

 

[Michael Simpkin]

It's in the box

 

[fredreload]

I suspect these questions are related to the questions that you've been asking about brain imaging in the biology form.

Anyway, if the bulb is incandescent, you could do thermal imaging (if the box is transparent to IR) to estimate the temperature of the filament inside the bulb. Since the light is produced by a well known physical mechanism, you could then model the spectrum of light output by the bulb based on measured parameters.

Yes well, I've been thinking about ways to visualize the actual electrical synapses inside a person's head. Well, I got an idea of lighting up the sodium ion with wavelength 589nm, or the solar roof technique, but both requires looking inside the brain. I swear I saw my brain light up one night, I'm just not sure how people retrieve that signal(through the eyes?). We know MRI can retrieve radio signal because it passes through, but the resolution is low. So, I'd like some idea on how to visualize electrical synapses

 

[collinsmark]

Yes well, I've been thinking about ways to visualize the actual electrical synapses inside a person's head. Well, I got an idea of lighting up the sodium ion with wavelength 589nm, or the solar roof technique, but both requires looking inside the brain. I swear I saw my brain light up one night, I'm just not sure how people retrieve that signal(through the eyes?). We know MRI can retrieve radio signal because it passes through, but the resolution is low. So, I'd like some idea on how to visualize electrical synapses

I can't speak for your brain lighting up. But you may find some useful information about visualizing electromagnetic radiation within the visible spectrum from this thread:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-decides-the-colour-of-light.842780/

 

[OrangeDog]

21. Hit the box and calculate its vibrational modes on the x,y, and z axis. From the time response and the mass you should be able to calculate the moment of inertia and thus the mass distribution and thus the location of the bulb.

 

[fredreload]

I can't speak for your brain lighting up. But you may find some useful information about visualizing electromagnetic radiation within the visible spectrum from this thread:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-decides-the-colour-of-light.842780/

Right, I know the visible spectrum of light, the thing is most electromagnetic radiation of visible spectrum does not pass through the skull. I was able to see it through the reverse projection in the eye(not sure how that works but it was visible, it shouldn't be a dream), but even then my eyes are closed, so how do people retrieve that light remains a mystery, thing is technology like this or the brain does not appear over the years, most of them remain in secret

 

[fredreload]

Well, I suppose you can do MRI on sodium ions? Someone verify this for me, thanks