Can the electron go out of the orbital even it is not radiated?

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    Electron even Orbital
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of electrons in atomic orbitals, specifically addressing whether electrons can transition between energy states without radiating energy, and the effects of light on electrons. The scope includes conceptual understanding of atomic structure and photon interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that electrons can only move between specified orbitals by gaining energy from photons, and cannot leave these orbitals without such energy.
  • Others propose that the question may pertain to whether electrons can transition from excited to ground states without emitting energy, or vice versa.
  • There is a discussion about whether light can "push" electrons, with some asserting that light can push electrons in free space but not those bound in orbitals.
  • One participant mentions the Compton effect as a relevant concept for understanding the interaction of light and electrons.
  • Several participants express frustration with the vagueness of the original question and encourage clearer communication for better assistance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the clarity of the original question and the implications of light's interaction with electrons. Multiple competing views remain regarding the specifics of electron transitions and the effects of light.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about electron behavior and the definitions of terms used, which may affect the clarity of the conversation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in atomic physics, photon interactions, and the conceptual challenges of communicating complex scientific ideas.

scientist91
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What do you mean if it is not "radiated?" I don't understand your question.

The electron can only be in certain different orbitals in the atom. It cannot go out of these specified orbitals unless it is freed from the nucleus by gaining some extra energy from a photon, in which case it still can only move from one allowed orbital to the next until it is free. --Is this what you were looking for??

Scientist, the questions you post on these forums are way too vague, and sometimes worded incorrectly. You seem to be trying to learn a lot about Physics, which is great, but you aren't going to learn physics by asking vague random questions on this forum. The best you can hope from this forum is to supplement your learning.

Please buy a book, start from the basics, and then you will be able to ask more detailed, useful questions, using the right terminology, and we will be able to help you all the better.
 
G01 said:
...

Scientist, the questions you post on these forums are way too vague, and sometimes worded incorrectly. You seem to be trying to learn a lot about Physics, which is great, but you aren't going to learn physics by asking vague random questions on this forum. The best you can hope from this forum is to supplement your learning.

Please buy a book, start from the basics, and then you will be able to ask more detailed, useful questions, using the right terminology, and we will be able to help you all the better.

You have no idea how many people have offered this advice.
 
In my book, there is not texts or paragraphs about atomic particles like electrons ;)
 
But you still have to work on expressing your questions in a coherent manner, so that you can receive accurate answers. Use the Thread title to give a hint as to the possible contents of the message; then use the body of the thread to state your problem as clearly as possibly. Otherwise we would have to guess what you mean to ask, as G01 did.
 
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maybe he means can the electron go from excited to ground state without radiating energy? or maybe the reverse?:confused:
 
ice109 said:
maybe he means can the electron go from excited to ground state without radiating energy? or maybe the reverse?:confused:
I know that the light can excite them and push out of the orbitals, but after exciting them, can the light push them in one correct direction?
 
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Electron absorbs energy (photons) and jump to higher energy level. They can re-emit the absorbed energy and return to ground state.
 
scientist91 said:
In my book, there is not texts or paragraphs about atomic particles like electrons ;)

You were given OTHER sources for you to read FIRST, such as the Hyperphysics website. Have you tried reading and understanding them before you ask such question? If you have, then point out exactly which part you did not understand. That way we know a more specific aspect that you are having trouble with. If you haven't, why not?

Zz.
 
  • #10
scientist91 said:
In my book, there is not texts or paragraphs about atomic particles like electrons ;)

What is your math background? Maybe some of us can suggest a good book?
 
  • #11
can the light push the electrons ?
like mechanical push?
like pushing some object in right direction?
 
  • #12
scientist91 said:
can the light push the electrons ?
like mechanical push?
like pushing some object in right direction?

yes light can push things and it can push electrons in free space but it doesn't push electrons in orbitals.
 
  • #13
ice109 said:
yes light can push things and it can push electrons in free space but it doesn't push electrons in orbitals.
like pushing some objects with mass (let's say I am pushing ball in certain direction, right?)?
 
  • #14
scientist91 said:
like pushing some objects with mass (let's say I am pushing ball in certain direction, right?)?

Look up Compton effect on the hyperphysics site I have given you before.

Zz.
 
  • #15
ice109 said:
yes light can push things and it can push electrons in free space but it doesn't push electrons in orbitals.
like pushing some objects with mass (let's say I am pushing ball in certain direction, right?)?
 
  • #16
scientist91 said:
like pushing some objects with mass (let's say I am pushing ball in certain direction, right?)?

an electron has mass doesn't it:confused:
 
  • #17
This just in, elctorons are massless.

Just kidding :biggrin:
 
  • #18
ice109 said:
an electron has mass doesn't it:confused:
Yes it have mass, but answer me on my question
like pushing some objects (let's say I am pushing ball in certain direction, right?)?
 
  • #19
scientist91 said:
Yes it have mass, but answer me on my question
like pushing some objects (let's say I am pushing ball in certain direction, right?)?

Hey, man, you're asking a simple Yes/No question, and the answer has already been given to you (yes) along with a resource to find further information on the topic (ZapperZ's suggestion to read up on the Compton effect).
 
  • #20
cepheid said:
Hey, man, you're asking a simple Yes/No question, and the answer has already been given to you (yes) along with a resource to find further information on the topic (ZapperZ's suggestion to read up on the Compton effect).
In free space, right? Can they be excited in free space by the light?
 
  • #21
This is getting to be rather pointless, annoying, and circular. You have already been given MORE than enough of an answer.

Zz.
 

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